After dive oxygen: shouldn’t the diver decide?

[Akimbo]

That would have to include the guys using it for deco at depth then, wouldn't it? As it was pointed out, the surface is your last deco stop.

The difference here is divers normally bring their own Oxygen for planned decompression compared to sucking down the boat's emergency supply. The simple solution is to bring your own green bottle and use it wherever you like.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I would think that a boat would be unwise to deny a person the use of their emergency oxygen - even if their staff felt that it was unneeded. On the other hand, I think it would be very unwise to have a bunch of people using it for "no reason".

I think the boat could institute a tough policy that says that use of their oxygen comes with a significant charge (that is waived if/when the diver seeks subsequent hyperbaric treatment. I also think that they could institute a policy that says... You use our oxygen... you are done diving for the day... Those two policies would probably serve to limit "recreational use" (except maybe in Colorado).

I knew some commercial divers who used to breath oxygen on surface intervals and one guy said he breathed oxygen right up until he rolled over the side and he had a very bad reaction and said he thought he felt oxygen toxicity coming on. I think that with people using nitrox, that allowing them to freely use oxygen between dives might affect the oxygen clock and if there was an unexplained death or seizure at depth, I can imagine that the lawyers would start pointing fingers at the "oxygen bar" the boat was running.

One the other hand, if someone brings their own oxygen for deco, I would think the boat operator could look the other way, if the use on deck seems reasonable.

 

[Herb-alaska]

So, what's the protocol for DCS? How about anyone with difficulty breathing. As best as I can ascertain, dive boats don't have SaO2 monitoring on board, so we're SOL there. Dive boats don't even have physicians unless one is a diver, so how would they identify COPD'rs??? They can't, which is why I think the decision to go on oxygen or not should be left up to the individual. Make it available, but make them decide. No need for the ship's crew to be involved in that decision.

The protocol for anything that is even suspected to possible be DCS is highflow O2 via a non re-breather mask. If I arrive on scene with our medic unit and you complain of muscle joint pain tingling or anything similar after diving then you are getting o2 . I would believe that any dive boat that refused o2 when requested as a result of possible or even the concern of having DCS would need to be prepared to hand the diver the bank. If the boat gives you o2 I would have a form that states that I think you need to go to the hospital and that I would be happy to call an ambulance for you but you are declining this and that you alone accept the responsibility of seeking further treatment. If the diver is not able to sign becasue they have an altered mental status or a distraction injury then the dive shop is obligated to call an ambulance.

I did not address this becasue I thought it would be obvious but dumpsterDiver brought it up so I will address it as well. If you receive O2 therapy at anytime during the day you will not get int he water from my boat. If you came to me and stated concern of a DCS hit but refused any and all treatment you are still done for the day. I mean even if you walked up to me and said wow i feel funny is this possibly DCS bam you are done for the day

 

[JohnN]

I’m a big fan of using pure Oxygen in the right setting and in high doses (partial pressures). Unfortunately I think expecting a charter boat operator to offer pure O2 to any passenger who isn’t showing symptoms exposes them to more liability and expense than they care to incur. Divers or groups certainly have that option to BYOO2, especially if they use it sitting on deck.

Some divers may find this post useful: Oxygen Toxicity Limits & Symptoms

I have purchased or directed the purchase hundreds of thousands of cubic feet of Oxygen over the years and it has all been industrial grade. The purity is the same except it comes in bottles with Brass instead of chromed valves. Most of it came in multi-packs of +/- 230 Ft³ cylinders like this:

I had a very interesting conversation with a counter guy at LiquidAir. Medical O2, Aviation O2 and "industrial" O2 all come out of the same tank. The requirements for purity for industrial O2 are actually higher than aviation or medical grade stuff since we can breath all sorts of crap, but contaminated gas will ***** up a weld big time

 

[tomfcrist]

I can just see now the goober that insists on sucking down O2 but doesn't want to go to the hospital for evaluation... There is no room for that in my personal paradigm.

So how did you arrive at your personal paradigm? In most of the first aid for divers, including a missed deco stop, it tells us to administer O2 and check for symptoms. Why would breathing O2 by itself require a visit to the hospital?

I don't do surface O2 for a missed stop...omitted deco without dcs symptoms should be handled by going back down and doing your deco....whatever that contingency plan may be.

As far as first aid goes, there need to be symptoms prior to administering first aid....if those symptoms are indicative of dcs, USCG is called and EMS will be waiting at the dock.

 

[Akimbo]

… One the other hand, if someone brings their own oxygen for deco, I would think the boat operator could look the other way, if the use on deck seems reasonable.

That would be another whole can of worms. I don’t know of any boats that want to arbitrate between you and your decompression profile — with the exception of “no planned in-water decompression stops” on the wussy cattle boats.

I agree there does need to be a substantial charge for boat-supplied Oxygen though… ever wrestle a “K” bottle down a dock?

---------- Post added March 30th, 2015 at 04:58 PM ----------

I had a very interesting conversation with a counter guy at LiquidAir. Medical O2, Aviation O2 and "industrial" O2 all come out of the same tank. The requirements for purity for industrial O2 are actually higher than aviation or medical grade stuff since we can breath all sorts of crap, but contaminated gas will ***** up a weld big time

The vast majority of Oxygen, Nitrogen, and Argon come from compressing and refrigerating air into a cryogenic (liquid) state. They then “boil off” each individual gas by controlling temperature and pressure. Pretty cool really. These days most hospitals and large welding operations just buy LOX (Liquid Oxygen) and store in Dewar cylinders.

 

[tomfcrist]

Lox is so fun to play with...

 

[Herb-alaska]

That would be another whole can of worms. I don’t know of any boats that want to arbitrate between you and your decompression profile — with the exception of “no planned in-water decompression stops” on the wussy cattle boats.

I agree there does need to be a substantial charge for boat-supplied Oxygen though… ever wrestle a “K” bottle down a dock?

If a boat denied a diver the access to o2 on the basis of inability to pay and that diver took an untreated or delayed treated hit from DCS I would suspect there would be a level of liability that would be more costly than providing a few D bottles of O2. I might be full every time you wanted back on the boat if you made a habit of feeling the need for o2 use simply becasue your dive profile is more hazardous than I would be comfortable allowing

 

[Akimbo]

If a boat denied a diver the access to o2 on the basis of inability to pay and that diver took an untreated or delayed treated hit from DCS I would suspect there would be a level of liability that would be more costly than providing a few D bottles of O2…

True, but they can try to collect later or just list the gear left onboard after the ambulance leaves on Craig’s list. Somebody has to pay the poor crewman to get those K-bottles onboard.

That brings up another question. Will DAN reimburse a small boat for services like administering Oxygen? What a tangled web we weave.

 

[Herb-alaska]

in a service industry trying to recoup all of your unforeseen costs can cost you more in bad press than just simply saying oh don't worry about it I am glad you are ok. Just think about the restaurant that says don't worry about the glass when you drop and break it. Or the good press that comes when you buy a pizza turn around and drop it and they make you a new one at no charge. If the margin is so thin on a dive boat that giving a bottle of O2 to a customer is a make or break it thing then they better raise prices or give up the business becasue it is not worth it.