Advice wanted: can my BCD take a double set?

[BarryNL]

I want to upgrade (as money permits) to a DIR style double tank set with independent regulators on a wing. It seems the first item to purchase could be the tanks but, the questions are: can I mount this on my existing BCD for now (see here for a picture of the mounting). Secondly, if I only have one regulator on a double manifold can I get something to fit on the second tank (some sort of blank) until I buy a second regulator.

 

[mongoose]

I'm not a DIR or a tech guy, by any means... I'm just a regular Joe, so I'm not sure how qualified I am to answer this, but some things occur to me about your approach:

-- It looks like you have a ScubaPro jacket-style BCD that is specifically designed for a single tank. I shudder at what you would have to cobble together to get manifolded doubles onto that baby. I think most folks would agree that a Backplate/Wing rig is optimum for doubles.
-- If you're diving a manifold, if I'm not mistaken, those are DIN valves, so if you have a yoke you would either need a DIN-yoke plug, or convert your existing first stage to DIN.
-- Why are you wanting to dive doubles? I noticed under your avatar, you have 50-100 dives. At this stage in your diving, are you doing the kind of diving that requires doubles?
-- Be aware that with a doubles rig, you will be sorely tempted to stay down past your NDL times.
-- If you want more bottom time, just keep diving as often as you can, slim down, and get in the best cardiovascular shape you can(swimming 500 yards a day at a strong, steady pace would be a great start). This will help you stretch the tanks that you have, and it's a good idea in general.
-- If you just plug one of the ports on the manifold, I think you'll be eliminating the redundancy that manifolded doubles will give you. If you only have one first stage, and it breaks at depth, you can have ten tanks on your back and the only first stage you have will be broken.
-- Have you been trained in the use of a manifold?

My instinct is to tell you to save your money for now. Don't buy stuff unless you know that you need it. Research DIR(on this site and others like wkpp.org, gue.com, etc.), tech diving, and the requisite equipment that is used. Study and read as much as you can. No amount of competent information is too much. Once you've done that, I think you'll be in a better position to make this kind of decision. Then you can buy precisely the right gear with all the money you've saved.

Just my 2 psi.

Safe diving, bro...
--'Goose

 

[captndale]

I'm not a DIR or a tech guy, by any means... I'm just a regular Joe, so I'm not sure how qualified I am to answer this, but some things occur to me about your approach:

-- It looks like you have a ScubaPro jacket-style BCD that is specifically designed for a single tank. I shudder at what you would have to cobble together to get manifolded doubles onto that baby. I think most folks would agree that a Backplate/Wing rig is optimum for doubles.
-- If you're diving a manifold, if I'm not mistaken, those are DIN valves, so if you have a yoke you would either need a DIN-yoke plug, or convert your existing first stage to DIN.
-- Why are you wanting to dive doubles? I noticed under your avatar, you have 50-100 dives. At this stage in your diving, are you doing the kind of diving that requires doubles?
-- Be aware that with a doubles rig, you will be sorely tempted to stay down past your NDL times.
-- If you want more bottom time, just keep diving as often as you can, slim down, and get in the best cardiovascular shape you can(swimming 500 yards a day at a strong, steady pace would be a great start). This will help you stretch the tanks that you have, and it's a good idea in general.
-- If you just plug one of the ports on the manifold, I think you'll be eliminating the redundancy that manifolded doubles will give you. If you only have one first stage, and it breaks at depth, you can have ten tanks on your back and the only first stage you have will be broken.
-- Have you been trained in the use of a manifold?

My instinct is to tell you to save your money for now. Don't buy stuff unless you know that you need it. Research DIR(on this site and others like wkpp.org, gue.com, etc.), tech diving, and the requisite equipment that is used. Study and read as much as you can. No amount of competent information is too much. Once you've done that, I think you'll be in a better position to make this kind of decision. Then you can buy precisely the right gear with all the money you've saved.

Just my 2 psi.

Safe diving, bro...
--'Goose

Very good advice!

Use what you have now to gain experience now. When you are ready to dive doubles get competent instruction and work with your instructor to put together a doubles rig. Put it together and dive it properly when you have the resources. Cobbing something together now because you can't afford to do it the correct way is a recipe for trouble.

 

[BarryNL]

-- It looks like you have a ScubaPro jacket-style BCD that is specifically designed for a single tank. I shudder at what you would have to cobble together to get manifolded doubles onto that baby. I think most folks would agree that a Backplate/Wing rig is optimum for doubles.

True, but the BCD seems to have those two nuts in the mounting plate - I'm not sure what the purpose of these is unless it's to mount doubles.

-- If you're diving a manifold, if I'm not mistaken, those are DIN valves, so if you have a yoke you would either need a DIN-yoke plug, or convert your existing first stage to DIN.

Well, the DIN to yoke convertor is just a simple screw in thing - in fact my current tank is a DIN with one of these converters fitted.

-- Why are you wanting to dive doubles? I noticed under your avatar, you have 50-100 dives. At this stage in your diving, are you doing the kind of diving that requires doubles?

Too many times coming out the water with 30bar left in the tank

-- Be aware that with a doubles rig, you will be sorely tempted to stay down past your NDL times.

I've seen this said, but OTOH with just a 12ltr it's often the case that you can't even get close to the NDL.

-- If you just plug one of the ports on the manifold, I think you'll be eliminating the redundancy that manifolded doubles will give you. If you only have one first stage, and it breaks at depth, you can have ten tanks on your back and the only first stage you have will be broken.

Well, as I said this is just as an interim measure until I can afford the second regulator as well.

My instinct is to tell you to save your money for now. Don't buy stuff unless you know that you need it.... Then you can buy precisely the right gear with all the money you've saved.

Well, the problem there is that I really need a second tank for repeat dives at sites without fill stations. It just seems a waste to spend €200 on a new tank when I could put that money towards the doubles I want.

Just my 2 psi.

... and thanks for it.

 

[mongoose]

True, but the BCD seems to have those two nuts in the mounting plate - I'm not sure what the purpose of these is unless it's to mount doubles.

Does the BCD's manual specifically say they're for doubles? The doubles you really don't need right now at this stage? Does the wing in that BC have enough lift to support the negative bouyancy of two tanks, plus the additional weight on your belt that you will have to have to overcome their bouyancy when they get empty?

Well, the DIN to yoke convertor is just a simple screw in thing - in fact my current tank is a DIN with one of these converters fitted.

Well, when you start getting into tech, AFAIK, the yokes are going to have to go. They prefer you to have DIN valves (less bulky, etc)

Too many times coming out the water with 30bar left in the tank

OK, well, it seems like you want to extend your bottom time. The proper way to get that is with frequent diving, and physical fitness. Not with more gear.

I've seen this said, but OTOH with just a 12ltr it's often the case that you can't even get close to the NDL.

At your level of experience (and my own), staying away from the NDL is not a bad thing.

Well, as I said this is just as an interim measure until I can afford the second regulator as well.

For the type of diving that you (and I) need to be doing for right now, the second regulator is carried by your dive buddy.

Well, the problem there is that I really need a second tank for repeat dives at sites without fill stations. It just seems a waste to spend €200 on a new tank when I could put that money towards the doubles I want.

OK, well, I would suggest to just buy another tank identical to the one you have, assuming you're diving the equivalent of an AL80. An AL80 with valve costs about $125 in the states.

Then, when you're ready, get them manifolded, get training, and go for it. Or, if you need LP steels, or whatever, you can sell the ones you have and purchase the new ones. Again, with all that money you've saved, and with all that diving and research you've done in the meantime, you'll make the best decision possible.

Don't get me wrong... I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm just throwing out stuff that occurs to me. Too many times I have bought stuff without sitting for a moment and thinking: "*WHY* am I getting this thing?", and what I bought winds up in the garage.

--'Goose

 

[Derek S]

Mongoose hit the proverbial nail on the head. Do more research before considering this move, I see ad-hoc solutions to a problem that doesn't exsist.

IMHO, if you don't have the money up front to pony up for doubles (pardon the pun), then you should reconsider diving them. Going half-way with "plugs" and single regulators is a recipe for disaster. I want to see you around for the long haul, not lost because of some convoluted equipment concoction.

Good luck and be safe!

D

 

[BarryNL]

Hmm, I guess I'm beginning to reconsider this. Perhaps dumping some money into a savings account until I have 1,800 euros to buy all the equipment in one go is a better idea.

Maybe if my employer has made enough profit to pay out the thirteenth month this year ...

 

[Brewone0to]

Why not buy a pair of larger tanks you would need for doubles,and dive them as singles? You wouldn't need the isolation manifold,the second reg set,the bands or be concerned about ending up on the bottom the first time you step off a boat.More tanks are good. And staging the purchase could allow buying steel tanks of a larger volume (108's maybe) Then his current tank could later be used as a stage or deco tank
just my 2 cents
(And the money saved on the extras could go along ways toward a suitable BCD)

 

[hex92]

You can dive doubles with that kind of BC. A LDS here has a couple of sets of AL 80s with bands that are different than your average ones. They have an extra piece of metal on them that bows out between the 2 tanks and allows them to be attached to BCs like that b/c that piece is the same curve/size as a single tank.

They are the only ones I have ever seen like that. I think the owner uses them as a way to allow divers thinking of making the switch to doubles a chance to try them out with a jacket style BC before taking the plunge to bp/w.


I wish I had a picture of them so you could see what I am talking about.

 

[abman]

You can dive doubles with that kind of BC. A LDS here has a couple of sets of AL 80s with bands that are different than your average ones. They have an extra piece of metal on them that bows out between the 2 tanks and allows them to be attached to BCs like that b/c that piece is the same curve/size as a single tank.

They are the only ones I have ever seen like that. I think the owner uses them as a way to allow divers thinking of making the switch to doubles a chance to try them out with a jacket style BC before taking the plunge to bp/w.


I wish I had a picture of them so you could see what I am talking about.

i have the same scubapro classic bc that you show in the pic.i use it when i am diving a single tank. NO it is NOT COMPATABLE for diving with doubles. check with scubapro. they will tell you the same thing. save your $ and buy a wing bc and a back plate that is made for diving with doubles.... but before that you really need to take stock of your experience or lack there of and log a few more dives before you buy a trip to the recompression chamber.. with a set of doubles.. get some training, either dir or hogarthian. learn HOW to dive safely with doubles.it IS NOT THE SAME AS DIVING WITH A SINGLE TANK. i'd really hate to see anyone get hurt due to a lack of training or experience. ken