Advice, I thought scubadiving was for me :(

[Jim Lapenta]

Another thing to consider when you sign up for a course is who does the instructor think they are working for? Themselves, a shop, resort, or the one who they should feel they are employed by - YOU, the new diver/student. I do not teach for or through a shop. As a result all of the money - minus expenses is my compensation that is paid by you.

You are my employer and therefore are the one in charge. I have a learning agreement that spells out my responsibility to you as well as what is expected of you during the training process. For this to work I also at any time will show the standards I am supposed to be teaching to. As well as those of the 8 other agencies I have in my library so you can compare the content of the courses. I only teach private or semi-private classes of no more than four students for OW. Usually it's one or two.

Keeping the classes small allows me great flexibility in scheduling, adding classroom and pool sessions, and doing so at no extra cost. Normally my pool sessions are on a set day. Right now it's Thursday evening but I can add sessions as long as I give the owner a weeks notice or so. Access to the pool when there are no other classes going on is unlimited for me so it's not a big deal to add when it is needed.

The one who normally decides if the added sessions are needed is the student. This is either by them saying so or my observation that they need a bit more attention and time. Perhaps shown a different way to accomplish a task. Since 2008 I've gained a reputation for being good with those who seem to need extra attention. Patience, time, and understanding help a great deal. Teaching for agencies that give me the freedom to teach as I see fit, introducing skills when I feel it's time, and in the order I choose to suit the student goes a long way to accomplishing that.

On top of that and as much as I feel that in their current form the RSTC is a toothless raggedy old washed up lion, I do teach to their standard for OW divers that says
"Open water certification qualifies a certified diver to procure air, equipment, and other services and engage in recreational open water diving without supervision. It is the intent of this standard that certified open water divers shall have received training in the fundamentals of recreational diving from an instructor. A certified open water diver is qualified to apply the knowledge and skills outlined in this standard to plan, conduct, and log open-water, no-required decompression dives when properly equipped, and accompanied by another certified diver"

In addition to that I also apply what is known as the "loved one" principle. The principle states, essentially, that once I have handed someone in open water certification card, I would be willing to allow them to take one of my loved ones on an open water dive and be confident that should a problem arise they would be able to handle it. I would also be willing to allow them to do this without any other supervision from myself or another dive professional. If I'm not comfortable with this I have no business giving them a certification card.

I truly wonder how many quickie course instructors would allow their newly certified OW student to take one of the instructor's kids the next weekend diving in the same conditions that they did the checkout dives with that student? The instructor takes a group of OW students out for checkouts in water with say 10 feet of vis, 55 degrees requiring a 7 mm FJ, a little surge and current, and does 4 20 minute dives to 20 feet over two days. I want that instructor to say to that student when they hand them their card "Hey, my 13 yr old daughter or son wants to go diving next weekend here and do two 45 minute dives to 40-50 feet to complete a school project. I have to teach a class. How about you bring them out to do that?"

If the student has been properly trained there should be no problem with them doing that. If not why would you, as a student, be satisfied with the level of training they expect you to use and maybe go out and dive with your own kids? Something to think about. Quick classes are done to minimize time and keep costs down. For the shop or instructor. Should this really be a primary consideration when what you are going to do with this card is:
1. Enter an alien environment that is normally hostile to human life? We don't have gills and can't breathe water.
2. Do so using mechanical means that requires some level of specialized training?
3. Do so unsupervised. That DM on the dive boat who may get in the water IS NOT there to keep you safe.?That's your job.
4. Do so in conditions that in many areas can change in minutes from benign to challenging to outright dangerous?
5. Do this with the understanding that someone may require your assistance in a life threatening situation that can arise suddenly?
6. Do this knowing that while SCUBA is relaxing, educational, fun, exciting, and if respected can be safe. But go too far, too fast, outside the limits of your training and experience, it can hurt or kill you very quickly, in some very nasty ways?

Keeping this in mind, why would anyone feel an abbreviated course is an acceptable path to entering this environment?

 

[frontiernurse]

You've gotten lots of good advice and responses here! When I did my training in 2010 I did two 8-hour days in the pool plus classroom stuff, then the plan was to go to Monterey (northern california) for the open water dives. There were 12 people in the class so the pool was super crowded and involved a lot of kneeling and waiting. And yelling by the instructor (at everyone). He was actually a good teacher and I appreciated his no-nonsense style. When we were finally able to just swim around the pool underwater I got an inkling of what real diving might be. I had that "ooooh this could be cool" moment, but I was filled with dread at the idea of going into the freezing murky surgey ocean with 11 other new divers and this cranky instructor. I was concerned I would hold the group back and disappoint my "drill instructor." So I listened to my instincts and I did not do the open water dives as planned. Like you, diving was a lifelong dream and I wanted it to feel right, and have positive associations (not trauma and anxiety!) Instead, I waited a few months and did my open water dives in Mexico, in warm clear water, 40 feet deep, with 1:1 instruction. It was just what I needed and was actually cheaper than Monterey would have been. And it didn't hurt that my instructor was a smoking hot Italian guy. Sorry, but hey, I did what I had to do. I've done 200 dives since 2010 (I went kind of dive-crazy), I have my AOW, I've dived all around the world, been surrounded by sharks, dolphins, mantas, psychedelic giant clams and fans, seen kooky frogfish and cephalopods and little nudies and shrimps and spanish dancers and plane wrecks from WW2 and a thousand other small wonders. I love just hovering upside-down with my eyes closed. One of my favorite dive moments was hanging in the blue listening to whales. I've even been in cenotes (fresh water caverns). Maybe I'm slow, but it took me at least 20 dives in easy conditions to get the hang of bouyancy control and relaxation that allowed those legs to stop feeling like they were floating up. (I totally remember that!) Much of what allows me control underwater now is how I breath (that helps determine buoyancy, position, air consumption, mood). Some of that breath control is mental, some is practice. So, basically I needed to learn and practice diving in places that felt safe and comfortable so I could relax and regulate breathing and the skills fell into place with practice. Learning at my own pace (initially slow) was worth it for me as now I more than caught up and now I can pretty much go anywhere and feel competent, safe, aware, and able to handle myself and help out others if needed.

 

[drspore]

First of all, as one who has had the privilege of taking several courses from Jim Lapenta, I want to say Jim's advice is golden. There can be no substitute for an instructor who sees the student as the center of it all. Second, I had to read this whole discussion to believe I had read your opening post correctly. The amount of pool time, to say nothing of classroom instruction, was disturbingly inadequate. I pride myself on being a very fast learner, but I would not have been at all comfortable with the supremely important theory after such a short time. Understanding the effects of atmospheric pressure changes and the application of that knowledge alone takes time to digest. Third, while I have always been comfortable in the water, I think anyone would have been nervous and overwhelmed under the circumstances you described. Fourth, don't give up. The rewards are well worth the effort and commitment. However, I feel no hesitation in saying you would be wise to choose another instructor and learning environment. Others have made the case for the change of instructor, but I would emphasize the change of environment, too. You've experienced a minor trauma of sorts, the memories of which will attach themselves to the venue. A new facility will disconnect you long enough to become truly comfortable. Diving is wonderful. It can even be so relaxing as to be meditative. Don't let a bad first start deny you a beautiful future. When I dive, all of my stresses just disappear; it's therapeutic. It should never have the opposite effect.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Hi again everyone.

i want to reply to everyone at length and will so later this evening I'm just a bit time poor right now. I really do appreciate everyone's responses. This forum is so supportive. Thank you.
i suppose to give you some context it is a three day course, with theory, one pool dive, two shore dives and a boat dive. By the sounds of the responses it sounds like I should endeavour to find a course with more pool time. Unfortunately I don't just "get it" and do need time to feel comfortable....with equipment, breathing, being immersed in water etc. I think I am a naturally anxious person, which may be impeding my skill development.

We we only went about 5 metres down, and the thought of needing to go down further makes me want to cancel the course completely. I know that I don't have the comfort or skill set to do this.

i just had the weights which you can clip in the BCD and I kept purging because I am an idiot that can't multitask... When I emptied my mask I guess I didn't keep my mouth around the regulator tight enough and salt water slipped in. It wasn't because the regulator was faulty. I didn't get chlorine in my mouth while in the pool, because I did feel relatively safe.

An overview of the course so far... I did theory before the course, then we had theory in the classroom a couple of hours in the pool where I had to do 200m of swimming and ten minutes of treading, then we did some skills underwater., then it was the shore dive. So not much at all. I do feel that if I had more one on one time, and time to practice myself I could become better. I need repetition for new concepts to stick. I just don't want to endanger myself, and certainly not others. And right now I feel that I am a risk.

If you think you are a risk, then you probably are a risk. If the thought of diving down deeper than a few meters instills great fear into you, then diving may not be for you. If you feel other students are 'naturals" and you are not, your perception of your own weaknesses and insecurities are probably perfectly correct.

There are many people who will NEVER learn to dive, it is not for everyone.

However, I have seen people that start out in a course who are incredibly bad. The water hits their lips and they start gagging, and try to shoot out of the water, even when it is waist deep. If you WANT to learn to dive, then you most likely CAN learn to dive. Don't be discouraged by your fears or your slow progression. Water is dangerous, it is normal for people who are not familiar with it to be fearful.

My advice is to take a step back, decide if this is something you want to try.. and if it is.. then relax... if it takes you several additional pool sessions to gain a level of confidence and comfort that YOU think is sufficient then who cares... Healthy people are physically capable of scuba diving, you need to determine if you have the mental/emotional capability to do it. Don't burden yourself with the time constraints of a single class. 95% of diving is really pretty easy, but if you are nervous and try really hard... it will probably be more difficult than it should be.

Personally, I think the best thing to do is to hit the pool every day for a week or two and swim and snorkel and dive down with the mask fins and snorkel. If you can make total peace with this simple gear, you will eventually be successful with scuba gear. Practice clearing your mask while snorkeling a hundred times- if you master it without a tank, doing it on scuba will be easy!

Practice swimming underwater without breathing for short distances, maybe 30-40 feet and make it EASY, don't push any of it hard at all. Equalize your ears each time you do a snorkel dive. Good divers relax in the water, they do not fight it. Practice swimming (or at least floating) while breathing through only the snorkel and use no mask and don't hold your nose closed. This simple skill may initially be very difficult, but it will be tremendously beneficial to allowing you to COMFORTABLY use scuba gear. You don't need anyone to teach you this stuff, just play with it on your own.

This is how i taught my young children to scuba dive.. by teaching them to snorkel very well first. The peace and relaxation this will provide you will make the scuba class so much easier. Most people don't have the time to teach scuba classes like this because it takes too long and many people don't actually NEED these skills to be able to scuba, but if you have anxiety issues, this is the best path to resolving them so you can move on.

Your problems with buoyancy control will be resolved with time. Buoyancy control is nothing more than a balancing act underwater. Like riding a bicycle, it is hard to explain how you learn to turn the handlebars to balance a bike.. a person just needs to "feel" the balance. Some kids take longer to ride with two wheels, but most kids can ride a bike eventually... if they really want to. Just relax and give yourself the time to learn it..IF that is what you want.

 

[Subcooled]

1. My buoyancy is absolutely terrible, I feel like I have no control.
2. I've never worn fins before and certainly don't look like I have the effortless glide that others in my group do.

It isn't natural for a person to be submerged, is it? Some struggle with it, initially. Some don't. I did. Sometimes it was mother earth calling, sometimes the heavens, me willing or not. It took some time to learn to control the bcd, the drysuit, and the lungs. Buoyancy is the hardest part of diving. It is like cycling. You become better as you practice. Eventhough your buoyancy is terrible right now, you can become really really really good at it. You just need a good instructor and some time. Sometimes it is those that struggle, that must put a little bit more effort in learning, and become more skilled ultimately. So don't worry, relax, take your time.

Same applies to fins. We were once asked to do frog kicks. Oh well... The instructor was holding my ankles and moving my legs. Legs that always wanted to go to the wrong direction. It was then that I learned that I can't even swim. Frog kick, by the way, was the only kick I thought I knew back then. I was motivated to learn and I practiced, on the surface, alone in a pool, without hurry, enjoying the new things I learned. I think I master five types of frog kicks now, and several flutter kicks, and I can swim forward, backward, and sideways. But it started in total humiliation Learning all these kicks has been wonderfull and I can truly enjoy every move now, but it took a lot of time.

3. My legs float up and feel like my feet and ankles are struggling to stay down

Heavier fins do exist.

ii. Flooding the mask made me feel like I was going to drown and I had to surface a couple of times before i had (minor) control over this fear. No one else did
iii. Not being able to descend as naturally as others (buoyancy is hard) and feeling like I couldn't control my movements in the water
iv. I kept getting salt water in my mouth and having to purge

All the problems you mention, are expected problems for a new diver. Many have these issues, some don't, and some do but don't show. I cannot say that I loved the flooding of the mask either, but it became easier with practice in the shallow end, and it required a lot of repetitions - not just one or two. Dozens. I also started freediving in a pool. That made me more confident in flooding a mask or getting water accidentally in my nose. Salt water in the mouth is strange. Perhaps the mouth piece is torn and leaks a bit and needs to be replaced, or maybe you are just opening your mouth because of stress? Seal the mouth piece lightly with your lips, and do not bite hard.

5. My back was SORE the day after

This usually happens with sports, if the muscles are stressed. It could also be that you are too tense (static stress) and this causes issues, or perhaps some equipment problem. Hard to tell without seeing. This issue should go away with practice once you have been told better ways to do things. Again: relax and take it slowly. No need to be busy under water. Just float around and watch and relax those muscles when you can.

As I have said this is a dream and I would be crushed if it turns out this isn't for me.

Dreams should be pursued. Look at the pioneers of diving, Denayrouze and Rouquayrol for example, or the Wright brothers that wanted to fly (they had some buoyancy issues too), or those who wanted to land on the moon. Have these not struggled? Greatly? Was it worth it? Well, yes. Your dreams might be more modest and more easily achieved, but some hardship cannot be avoided, so take your time, and gradually move closer to the fullfillment of your dreams.

Finally, I would just conclude that learning a physical skill does take some time and practice (that is what coaches are for in sports), and that it is more enjoyable and maybe even faster, if you do it slowly in a relaxed manner. Slower you get further.

So, what techniques should you apply? Two words: slowmotion, repetition.

---------- Post added January 7th, 2015 at 10:26 AM ----------

In the ocean, the conditions were not ideal. It was quite windy and the visibility wasn't great because of all the sediment circulating through the water. It was difficult to keep track of everyone in the group. So I suppose not great conditions for my first dive.

True. Not great conditions. I learned to dive in a stone quarry. Many learn in a lake. The sea is wild. Diving is a lot easier in better conditions. You should locate some sheltered water and gain experience there, or pick a better day.

it is a three day course

Oh, I see. No wonder you are struggling. My first diving course was a seven day course run over a period of four weeks. It consisted of about ten hours of lectures and five hours in the in the pool (in water). We had five pool sessions followed by two dives in sheltered water. After the course I thoroughly enjoyed at least two dozen dives (or was it fifty?) before diving in moving water in bad visibility.

The problem is not you. The problem is the course.

 

[pelan-pelan]

Superb advice on this thread. I completely identify with the situation. Buoyancy is so important - and there are many differences. For me a weight belt low on the body (so that's what a big behind is for - to keep your weight belt on) and ankle weights. Some find this arragement shocking until they go muck diving with me (no silt kicked up) and stay down for nearly 2 hours and then read my gauge which says I can stay for another. Really good advice has been given on this thread to take time, sometimes on your own, and experiment. By the way - not sure how tall you are. A full length tank can interfere with buoyancy, finning and even breathing if it is too big for you.

If you feel that you are "odd" just take a look at the individual tweaks that experienced divers have in the way they wear their gear.

And one more thing - is your mouthpiece too big? If so you would have trouble equalising and breathing - which equals strees which equals unhappy dive.

My moment of revelation when I realised I could do this? Hearing one of the dive masters, at 3 metres, singing recognisably through his mouthpiece "Singing in the Rain". All you instructors out there - try it. Calms the students a treat.

 

[danvolker]

That's very reasonable. Unfortuntately, I live in New South Wales, Australia. Hopefully I can find something that is similar to what has been suggested.

Courtney,
It has been said that the most important choice you will make in LIFE, is choosing your parents well.
In Diving, the most important choice you will make, is the Choice of who your instructor(s) will be.

There is a huge variation in Dive Instructor skill levels, and in how well an instructor could connect with a specific type of student( like YOU), and divine exactly what the student needs. Most instructors are going to be either mediocre, or just plain bad. You need to find one in the top 5%...Seriously.

Among your best resources in this thread, is a poster named TSandM ....Not only a great diver, and very involved in helping divers with high level instruction, Lynn has great connections--she knows people that are among the best...

As a new student diver, you could not possibly know a good instructor from a bad instructor....not even if your life depended on it....oh wait...it does !

 

[scubadoo3485]

Courtney most new divers are nervous at first, you are entering an environment that your mind is saying you shouldn't be in. Buoyancy control will come with experience. Ask your Instructor to slow down a bit if your not getting all the drills down. Don't feel like your slowing down the class if you speak up and ask her to repeat something. That's what your paying them to do. Chances are there's others in your class that are feeling the same way. Don't Give up, You can do this !!! It's a beautiful world down there. Keep us Posted as to how you Make out

 

[Diver0001]

thank you all for reading. Any advice or feedback would be much appreciated.

Finish what you started.

Do you think you would need training if it was all natural? LOL

come on.

What you are describing is a perfectly normal process of learning how to dive. let go of ego, let go of the expectation that by fantasizing about it, you have somehow already learned it. *Allow* yourself to be the student. Allow yourself to admit that you might still have something to learn.

Then
1) focus on trusting the gear. This is reason #1 why students fail to become competent divers
and
2) focus on trusting your instructor. This is reason #2.

R..

 

[danvolker]

Diver0001,
I don't think you read the same post I did....
The OP said mask was constantly flooding, and water was getting into each breath from reg....etc, etc...
For the instructor not to have noticed this, and immediately dealt with it, is automatic grounds for her to quit the class, and to get as far away from such a poor excuse for an instructor, as would be possible.

Telling the OP to "trust" this instructor, is a real problem.