Advice, I thought scubadiving was for me :(

[Jim Lapenta]

Actually my semi private lessons are 395 for the course including books. Private would be 550. That includes checkout dives.

 

[Courtneychau]

Actually my semi private lessons are 395 for the course including books. Private would be 550. That includes checkout dives.

That's very reasonable. Unfortuntately, I live in New South Wales, Australia. Hopefully I can find something that is similar to what has been suggested.

 

[phlegm]

Hey, my girlfriend was in a really similar situation when we did our OW course. She wasn't a confident swimmer and was pretty scared of the ocean. When she did the flooded mask drill in the pool she freaked out, thought she was downing and had to take a day off from the course, saying all the same sorts of things you have said. Really upset and terrified of repeating her mistakes at depth. She, like you, was over thinking everything. We borrowed a mask and snorkel from the dive shop and just practiced clearing her mask in the pool, and then in shallow salt water when she was comfortable with that. No instructor, no time pair, just us. Baby steps. She got the hang of it and gradually gained confidence, and when she finally had her first open water dive she loved it. She's now done penetration wreck dives and is a very capable diver.

So just take a step back, practice the skills that are troubling you and try not to worry too much. Don't hesitate to tell your instructor about anything you are struggling with, it's their job to help you through it.

Good luck!

 

[Courtneychau]

Stay within your comfort zone but stretch the comfort zone enough to make ground.
With the finning, go to a pool on your own time and do laps with mask snorkel fins.
It will make your legs strong and also help you figure out how to effectively make your particular fin perform the best.
Don't measure yourself against others, just keep your eyes on the prize.
And one more time DON'T GIVE UP!!!

I think that is definitely what it comes to. I have never breathed underwater before, and thus it felt very unnatural. I also need to trust my equipment. I am going to go the pool tomorrow and do laps with my mask,snorkel and fins. I don't want to give up. It's my dream to do this, and I am willing to do whatever training necessary. I might just need more than the average person. Thank you Eric.

---------- Post added January 3rd, 2015 at 09:13 PM ----------

@Courtneychau... before you start digesting everyone's motivational suggestions, let me ask you one question. During your pool dive, when you first went to the bottom, completely breathing air that was not from the atmosphere, did you think at any time, even for a second, "This is really cool!" ?

If your answer is yes, then we're off to a good start. Sounds like you need to slow it down, like others have said, "baby steps". My suggestion would be a one-on-one training session... at your pace.

After the initial shock of breathing under water, I did have a few moments like that. I know it's no comparison to what you can see the ocean but I remember seeing the lower half of a father and daughter playing in the water. It was one of the most beautiful, peaceful and quiet moments of my life and for a couple of minutes breathing was completely effortless. Unfortunately I didn't have this in the ocean. Probably because I couldn't see anything.

---------- Post added January 3rd, 2015 at 09:15 PM ----------

Hey, my girlfriend was in a really similar situation when we did our OW course. She wasn't a confident swimmer and was pretty scared of the ocean. When she did the flooded mask drill in the pool she freaked out, thought she was downing and had to take a day off from the course, saying all the same sorts of things you have said. Really upset and terrified of repeating her mistakes at depth. She, like you, was over thinking everything. We borrowed a mask and snorkel from the dive shop and just practiced clearing her mask in the pool, and then in shallow salt water when she was comfortable with that. No instructor, no time pair, just us. Baby steps. She got the hang of it and gradually gained confidence, and when she finally had her first open water dive she loved it. She's now done penetration wreck dives and is a very capable diver.

So just take a step back, practice the skills that are troubling you and try not to worry too much. Don't hesitate to tell your instructor about anything you are struggling with, it's their job to help you through it.

Good luck!

Thank you for taking the time to share your story with me. It really helps. I was quite prepared for a lot of negative responses to my post and felt that it wasn't for me based on the confidence of the divers in my course.

---------- Post added January 3rd, 2015 at 09:19 PM ----------

So you had a couple of hours in the pool that included a 200 yard swim, a 10 minute float, and some skills under water. Then you did three open water dives.

Here is a link to the minimum standards for a group of dive agencies called the RSTC. All agencies in that group (PADI, SSI, SDI, IDEA, and PDIC) all agree to meet or exceed those minimum standards. Current PADI standards exceed them by quite a bit. Other agencies who are not in that group have similar standards, and some exceed those standards.

As a PADI instructor, I cannot possibly complete the required pool skills in the amount of time you had, even if I had only one student who was doing well. I am also required to do four open water dives, so the three required of you is a violation of the agency standards.

If your agency was one of the ones I listed, you should contact their headquarters and tell them about your experience. You will be doing everyone a great favor.

Thank you. Unfortunately it was one of the courses you listed. That's why I've been quite down, because it is an internationally recognised course. I'll keep looking for a course that suits my needs, and practice with my new gear in the meantime.

---------- Post added January 3rd, 2015 at 09:22 PM ----------

A few questions;
Exactly how much pool training did you do? I just completed an Intro pool session a couple hours ago. The student signed up for an Open Water Class. It will be a total of roughly 16 hours in the pool over 7-8 weeks before he sees open water.
How did your instructor determine you were properly weighted and show you how to determine you were weighted correctly? We spent the first twenty minutes conducting a weight check with out scuba gear then with it.
How were you taught to control your buoyancy? We worked on using breath control since he was weighted correctly and within 15 minutes was swimming neutral and horizontal. He had never used scuba fins before either.
How much time was spent on the academics of diving?
Buoyancy control?
Trim?
Using lung volume to control your position in the water?
Was proper posture discussed?
How much time was spent clearing the mask while snorkeling?
How was it demonstrated on Scuba? In a slow motion way that made it look terribly hard or with a good explanation and demo'd smoothly and quickly? I have seen many people have issued when demonstrated in the latter.
Why were you in saltwater after what sounds like one pool session? That may be ok for some but to me that's nuts. If a student shows any difficulty in the pool there is no way they are going to opne water.
What it sounds like you need to do is find a course and instructor that is not going to rush through the process. Your feet were floating up? What did they do about it or tell you to do about it?

I could go on and on but I would respectfully advise you to get a copy of my book from Amazon. Here's a look at the table of contents below. I don't mince words nor pull punches. I wrote it because of new divers having experiences like yours. With no frame of reference or comparisons to make with other programs people get frustrated, discouraged, angry, take advantage of, and even injured or worse by quickie courses.

You say your instructor was "great". How great? She took you to open water with the difficulties you were having. Doesn't sound great to me. I would have kept you in the pool, and worked with you one on one, and made sure you had no issues before taking you out of it. You also state you kept getting saltwater in your mouth. Why? That sounds like defective equipment. Again, not "great". bIf your back was sore something is not right. The gear, weighting, posture, etc. All of those can be fixed by a great instructor. A mediocre one will tell you "it's normal at first. You just have to work through it, get used to it," or say "I'm not sure."

From my book:
Chapter 1Safe Diving Practices
Chapter 2 Basic Skills
Chapter 3Buddy Skills
Chapter 4Dive Planning
Chapter 5Gas Management
Chapter 6“Trust Me” Dives
Chapter 7 When to Get More Training and Why
Chapter 8Choosing an Instructor
Chapter 9What Type of Training is Best for You?
Chapter 10Choosing a Dive Shop
Chapter 11Gear Selection and Your Dive Shop
Chapter 12Equipment Options and Information
Chapter 13 Why Dive Locally?
Chapter 14BASIC Gear Maintenance
Appendix A: SCUBA Terms
Appendix B: Recommended Reading

From the chapter on basic skills, buoyancy and trim section..

........
................ It begins with properly weighting students instead of giving them amounts of weight that plant them on the bottom.

Doing a proper weight check is not difficult, but it does take a little time. There are numerous formulas used by different agencies and instructors for initial weighting. My usual method is to take 5% of the student’s body weight in just a swim suit and start there. I also prefer to use weight belts even with a weight-integrated BC, using the integrated pockets or the pockets of the BC itself to add weight. We then start in the usual manner by having students move into deeper water so that they cannot stand, asking them to take a full breath from the regulator, hold it, and dump all the air from their BCs. Everyone should float at approximately eye-level. At this point, they are asked to exhale and should begin to slowly descend. If not, we will add weight in two-pound increments for anyone who needs it until they do. If anyone sinks like a rock I will not stop there, because divers should be able to descend in a controlled manner, and sinking like a stone is not controlled. I will stop the descent of any over-weighted student and remove two pounds, repeating the process until the proper weight is determined.

Once proper weighting has been roughly established, we will move back into shallow water and work on equalizing and descending in a horizontal position. In this way, we introduce the idea of trim while working on buoyancy. Trim is used to describe the orientation of a diver; the ideal orientation is horizontal because this presents the least amount of drag on the diver. Reduced drag results in less resistance so propulsion is more effective; because less work is required to move through the water, air consumption is reduced. We will discuss more factors affecting trim later in this chapter, but let’s focus on buoyancy right now. ...................


---------- Post added January 3rd, 2015 at 04:50 PM ----------



This is very disturbing. An instructor took you after one day in the pool into conditions like this? That's bull crap.

Thank you that thorough information Jim. It is good to get the perspectives of other experienced divers. I definitely will buy your book. I probably won't persevere with the one that I am currently doing. I really appreciate you shedding some new perspectives on diving. Obviously I am very new to this world. And a little (a lot) naive.

 

[boulderjohn]

Thank you. Unfortunately it was one of the courses you listed. That's why I've been quite down, because it is an internationally recognised course. I'll keep looking for a course that suits my needs, and practice with my new gear in the meantime.

I beg you to report the situation to the agency. They are supposed to maintain standards, and in order to do it, they MUST get help from people like you. What you describe is a MAJOR violation of minimum standards. It cannot be allowed to continue. The only way it can be changed is if people like you realize how badly they have been served and report that to the agency.

 

[TSandM]

Courtney, read the journal of my OW class that is linked in my sig line. I think you'll smile at a lot of it. That journal was written 9 1/2 years ago, and I have over a thousand dives under my belt now, and technical and cave certifications. Not everybody who goes underwater takes to it like a fish -- some of us really have to work to become comfortable and efficient in the water. But as long as you can manage your anxiety, the physical part of it just takes time and practice.

Where are you in NSW? I may be able to put you in touch with some folks who can help.

 

[Courtneychau]

Courtney, read the journal of my OW class that is linked in my sig line. I think you'll smile at a lot of it. That journal was written 9 1/2 years ago, and I have over a thousand dives under my belt now, and technical and cave certifications. Not everybody who goes underwater takes to it like a fish -- some of us really have to work to become comfortable and efficient in the water. But as long as you can manage your anxiety, the physical part of it just takes time and practice.

Where are you in NSW? I may be able to put you in touch with some folks who can help.

What is the title of the entry? I am private messaging you now to get in touch with someone. THANK YOU.

 

[pasley]

When I got certified in 2 weekends and an hour or so for paperwork, my first dives after certification I was:
1. Unable to adequately control my buoyancy.
2. Often surfaced with out a safety stop (see item 1 for cause).
3. Despised (how do you spell the past tense of hate?)_ water in my mask. Made me feel like I was going to drown.
4. Exhausted after a shore dive.
That was 2001. This past year (2014) ended with only 98 dives for that year. My target is 125-150 dives a year. Wife had surgery and I had to stay home for past 2 months with her. Now I am addicted to SCUBA. I love diving and often add water to the mask if there is any fogging issue.

SCUBA instruction should not be fast instruction. Unfortunately, due to economics it often is. From what you say if I was teaching you, we will still be in the pool working on skills until you were
1. Proficient in them. By that I mean it is done to standard without thought by muscle memory.
2. Able to remain absolutely motionless halfway between the surface and the bottom for several minutes.
3. Nothing is done or used in the ocean that has not been done/used in the pool first.
Buoyancy is tough to master, mostly because most instructors do not explain it correctly and overweight the students too.

You can do this if you want to do this. I teach primarily the handicapped. If an individual who is only able to shake their head from left to right and back can learn to SCUBA dive, then you can. See video of an Army veteran diving in Cozumel:
[video=youtube;lC6YvcEaJJ8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC6YvcEaJJ8&feature=player_embedded[/video]

DISCLAIMER: NOT A SCUBA LESSON. SEE YOUR INSTRUCTOR FOR FULL DISCUSSION ON BUOYANCY CONTROL!
Buoyancy Control short review:
1. Proper Weighting - Weight so that with a full lung and completely empty BCD and being perfectly still you float with water at eye level. Then exhale, you should sink. If so you are properly weighted. IF diving aluminum tanks add 4 to 5 pounds for the end of the dive. At end of dive with 500 PSI in tank repeat the weight check. You should float with water at eyelevel and lungs full of air, BCD empty and sink on exhale. IF you float higher in the water, add weight. IF you sink with lung full of air, empty BCD and 500 PSI in tank, loose some of the weights.
2. Weight and trim - distribute the weights to achieve proper trim. You should be horizontal with the smallest possible front presented to the direction of travel. Example your gong ---> you should look from the side like --- not like /
3. Decent -
A: Pre clear the ears. Continue to clear ears ever 2 feet or so as you descend.
B: Signal your buddy and have them acknowledge their agreement to descend.
C: Griping inflator/deflator hose in left hand Extend left arm until the Inflator hose is fully extended.
D: Cross your ankles - Trust me. Watch your buddies who can't get down, look at their feet...they are finning and swimming up the entire time they are trying to go down. Automatic, natural response of the human in water where they can't touch bottom is to kick their legs back and forth.
E: Press deflator button and exhale....exhale....exhale....exhale...exhale inhale small breath if you must and then repeat the exhale.
F: Water over your head. Stop pressing the deflator button and dumping air! Water over the head means you are sinking and that means you are in a state of negative buoyancy. Any air you dump after this point you will have to immediately add back to get neutral when you want to stop. So don't dump it.
G: Control your decent! Go slowly. When your depth hits 5-10 feet, add a very quick and small Psst of air. Note I said Psst NOT PSSSSSSSSSST, Keep adding air in small Psst every 3-6 feet. You should float down slowly. In fact you may need to check your depth gauge to ensure you are sinking as you are gong slow enough that you don't feel like you are sinking.
H: Before you get to the bottom or the desired depth, about say 15 feet or so, start putting on the breaks, use slightly longer Pssst of air. But not too much. Give each Pssst time to overcome the momentum. Because you controlled the decent (see G above) the momentum should be minimal.
4. The Dive - Use your lungs as your first line of buoyancy control. They are always breathing in and out. You always know where to find them and can effect small changes to your buoyancy almost instantly by exhaling or inhaling (but NEVER HOLD YOUR BREATH!). Larger changes add or subtract air with small Psst or dumps. Remember air is always closest to the surface so use the dump closest to the surface. IF using inflator hose, be sure to FULLY EXTEND IT. That U Loop can trap air.
5. Swim horizontally. If you are swimming and start to float up, then stop and dump air and sink and then start to float up again it is NOT your buoyancy that is the problem. It is your position in the water is / and you are swimming up. If your body is at an angle, then the water striking your chest (instead of your head and shoulders only) along with your twin engines (fins on your feet) propelling you along the line of your body which is angled up towards the surface is going to cause you to rise. So you look like a saw blade swimming. Rise, sink, rise, sink, rise, sink etc.
6. Your head leads the body - as your head goes your body goes. Head tilted up, you go up. Head tilted down, you go down.
7. Small arch in your back helps keep the hips up. Don't put all your weight on your hips either.

 

[Wingy]

Courtney I would suggest posting on an Australian forum also Recent Discussions (1/2) - Dive-Oz Discussion Forums - www.diveoz.com.au is the biggest and most popular Australian Scuba Diving Resource!. You have had some great advice here but no one from Aus has answered your post here, SB can often be very US orientated and the way US divers think often differs than the way we do. For example the DIR and GUE systems are not huge in Aus and you have had some answers from people who dive those systems. How far out of Sydney are you?

Putting in some pool time and sitting down with your instructor and discussing things may help - one thing that has struck me reading your post is you have said you didn't want to disappoint or hold up the rest of the group. Scuba diving is not a team event - think about YOU not the others. If you are constantly thinking you are inconveniencing others you are naturally going to be feeling down on yourself to begin with. If I were you I would post on the aus dive forum and see if someone can recommend a good instructor nearby you - the hints you have picked up here will stand you in good stead for when you find an instructor or discuss with your current instructor but you cant learn diving over the net, it takes time to feel comfortable.

Best of luck - I dont think I enjoyed a single moment of OW and especially hated the shore dive due to the weight of the tank while walking into the water. I simply dont shore dive because I dont like it. Just to keep your dream alive start watching youtube clips of diving in NSW and other overseas places like Bali to give you something to work towards. Heres something from NSW https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBuvKWRBMgU. Just visualise that being you - and if you have FB join the scuba diving girls page, the posts will keep you focused on your end goal.

 

[TSandM]

Courtney, the journal link is in my sig line, under my post . . . just touch the link and you'll go to the journal.