Advice about tech training, please...

[doctormike]

Mike, you don't have to do it all at once.

You're in New York, so you have some excellent options. I would strongly recommend you take a class like Intro to Tech or (my choice, of course) GUE Fundamentals. You can take those classes IN a single tank setup, if you wish, or in doubles. They will introduce you to the skills and the standards that are pretty common in technical classes (or ought to be). You can go back to the recreational diving you are already doing and work on those skills, before taking a class that will add complexity, task-loading and scenario management to the equation.

Thanks, that's another good point... One of the other options that I didn't list was a GUE fundies class, and while I certainly don't want to derail the thread towards that discussion, I wasn't sure if that would be less "compatible" with any other non-GUE training that I got later. One of my local dive buddies has started on this path, and I had the opportunity to talk with him for a while on a recent drive to the quarry. He did make it sound more widely applicable than just for diving with other DIR divers. My concern (and correct me if I'm wrong) was that the emphasis on the team approach and constant team interaction would be hard for a photographer/videographer and for my buddies. Or am I off base with that impression?

I wouldn't worry about doing a few dives without the camera. It might actually make you look at your diving in another way (just as carrying a camera makes me do) and you might actually find it refreshing and fun for a change.

Hehehe, yup, exactly! I did a dive without my camera this season when I had a lens contact failure, and I was amazed at how nice it was to have two hands.

As far as double tanks go, the HP 100s are very nice, versatile tanks, that are light enough so you won't learn to hate them, and yet big enough for solid dives in the 150 foot range. They are very popular tanks around here.

Yes, I think that will be the way that I will go, and maybe keep the old 120s to loan out to buddies who don't have tanks for the quarry, or the local beach dive...

As far as your future technical training would go, I think the best thing is to figure out what kind of diving the people you would be diving with are doing (and decide if you LIKE the way they are diving, which is another whole issue) and go get training that will teach you to dive that way. There is no point in finding an agency or an instructor that works for you and doesn't work for the way they dive, if your goal is to dive with them.

Exactly. Each of the instructors that I am considering is well integrated into our local group, and I think would train me with that in mind...

Doubles (depending on tanks) isn't too difficult of a thing to do on your own. It's worth the time to get used to the setup though.

Yes, what I thought I might do if I get the doubles is to see if I could hire one of the instructors for a day at the quarry to go over the setup, etc.. without worrying about it being part of any specific course. I know one instructor who does that sort of "scuba coaching", looks like a good idea!

 

[TSandM]

Send a PM to Rick Inman here. Rick was one of my Fundies classmates. He went on to do all the rest of his technical training with IANTD, but his IANTD instructor told him that, as he saw it, Fundies was the best possible thing he could have done in preparation for his further training.

There is a lot of mystique about Fundamentals, but in reality, it is exactly what it says it is -- Fundamental skills. It is a class to help you refine buoyancy, trim, positioning, underwater communication, and team skills. It introduces the higher standard for all of those things that technical training demands. It's an enormously useful foundation.

And as far as team skills goes with photographers -- That's where you really need them! I have done many, many dives as a buddy, or part of a team of three, where one diver was an intense and focused photographer. You just identify the purpose of the dive as obtaining good images, and the photographer shoots while the buddies monitor him and scout for more subjects. It's a beautiful way to execute a dive (and one of my favorites, because it means the whole team moves slowly). Yes, the photographer MAY have to compromise the absolute focus of the shoot (unless it is agreed that that is the ONLY purpose of the dive, for the entire team). But the result is generally better, for the photographer AND his buddies.

Don't ask me. I don't shoot (but I scout). Ask my husband, who does shoot; ask Mo2vation, who is a fabulously talented and obsessive photographer. Ask Danny Riordan, who does amazing cave photography, or David Rhea, who does the same in caves and open water. Working as a team improves the quality of the photography AND the safety of the dive team.

 

[doctormike]

Send a PM to Rick Inman here. Rick was one of my Fundies classmates. He went on to do all the rest of his technical training with IANTD, but his IANTD instructor told him that, as he saw it, Fundies was the best possible thing he could have done in preparation for his further training.

There is a lot of mystique about Fundamentals, but in reality, it is exactly what it says it is -- Fundamental skills. It is a class to help you refine buoyancy, trim, positioning, underwater communication, and team skills. It introduces the higher standard for all of those things that technical training demands. It's an enormously useful foundation.

You know, I have heard that from many people... maybe I should just look into that. I guess it's not a huge investment in terms of time, right?

And as far as team skills goes with photographers -- That's where you really need them! I have done many, many dives as a buddy, or part of a team of three, where one diver was an intense and focused photographer. You just identify the purpose of the dive as obtaining good images, and the photographer shoots while the buddies monitor him and scout for more subjects.

I had heard that too from my buddy, and this is the part that I have trouble understanding. I wonder about the intersection of human nature and the DIR approach. If I always want to shoot, is it fair to basically assume that the rest of my team is OK with always supporting that goal? Isn't that sort of a one way deal? I would assume that it would only be fair for some of the dives for me to leave the camera and support them in whatever they were doing, right (looking for artifacts, lobster, whatever)? Because I assume that most divers don't want to put in the effort it takes to do a dive just so that they can make my pictures come out better, at least not on a regular basis.

I guess it might be best to take the class and explore that question, huh?

 

[BabyDuck]

i won't speak to the class bits, but wanted to say that i (and i'm sure others) *like* going very slowly and finding things for a photographer. it doesn't bother me if that's the dive's goal, many times in a row, on a regular basis. so if you find someone like lynne or me who likes being the safety diver & scout, we're fine being your support.

 

[doctormike]

i won't speak to the class bits, but wanted to say that i (and i'm sure others) *like* going very slowly and finding things for a photographer. it doesn't bother me if that's the dive's goal, many times in a row, on a regular basis. so if you find someone like lynne or me who likes being the safety diver & scout, we're fine being your support.

OK, you're on..! Let's meet at the dock at Buddy Dive in Bonaire after lunch...



You are correct, of course - finding a good buddy is not easy, and it is great when you are not only matched in diving abilities but also in interests and approach. I had a buddy at one point who really liked to cover a lot of ground, and was annoyed when I brought my macro lens. I personally could sit for an hour in front of a rock pile and have a blast!

Another good use for a buddy (when you bring the wide angle lens) is to be a model. This is a unique skill, takes good communication between divers to set up the shot just right...

 

[waterpirate]

You are where I was 6 years ago. I had a bucket load of dives in a mid atlantic wreck rig. Single hp 120, slung 30 for pony bottle, wet suit. I made a lot of changes since then. I found an instructor and mentor and identified where I wanted to go. Deep, deco, spearfishing.
Spearfishing like photograhpy is task loading at it's worst. First change was to a plate and wing with sta, did a lot of dives. Second change was doubled hp 100's diferent wing still slinging pony bottle, dove as one big tank, did a lot of dives. Third change was class, now could do drills and deco, did a lot of dives. Fourth change introduced helium, did a lot of dives. Fifth change was full trimix and trying to do a lot of dives.
This whole ongoing process has taken me six years, but for me it was about the diving not the end goal. It spread out the financial impact as well as allowing time between changes to improve and evaluate what to do or where to go next. I am still enjoying the ride.
I would recomend that with your camera being part of the equation for you, that you introduce helium sooner than later. You will be pleasantly surprised with the results in regard to quality and performance in dealing with task loading at even moderate depth 100fsw.
Hope this tail of my journey helps you on yours.
Eric

 

[doctormike]

You are where I was 6 years ago. I had a bucket load of dives in a mid atlantic wreck rig. Single hp 120, slung 30 for pony bottle, wet suit. I made a lot of changes since then. I found an instructor and mentor and identified where I wanted to go. Deep, deco, spearfishing.
Spearfishing like photograhpy is task loading at it's worst. First change was to a plate and wing with sta, did a lot of dives. Second change was doubled hp 100's diferent wing still slinging pony bottle, dove as one big tank, did a lot of dives. Third change was class, now could do drills and deco, did a lot of dives. Fourth change introduced helium, did a lot of dives. Fifth change was full trimix and trying to do a lot of dives.
This whole ongoing process has taken me six years, but for me it was about the diving not the end goal. It spread out the financial impact as well as allowing time between changes to improve and evaluate what to do or where to go next. I am still enjoying the ride.
I would recomend that with your camera being part of the equation for you, that you introduce helium sooner than later. You will be pleasantly surprised with the results in regard to quality and performance in dealing with task loading at even moderate depth 100fsw.
Hope this tail of my journey helps you on yours.
Eric

Thanks, that's very helpful..! It sounds like I should be able to build slowly and go from step to step.

Mike

 

[TSandM]

If I always want to shoot, is it fair to basically assume that the rest of my team is OK with always supporting that goal?

No, it's never okay to ASSUME that But it's perfectly okay to discuss it. You may find some folks who are fine with doing a dive or two like that, but want to dive with other buddies some of the time. You may, as Mo2vation and HBDiveGirl did, find a full-time buddy who is DELIGHTED with the role of photographer's helper. I personally love diving with a photographer, because I don't have the hassle of hauling around camera gear, and I still get the pictures

Second change was doubled hp 100's diferent wing still slinging pony bottle, dove as one big tank, did a lot of dives. Third change was class, now could do drills and deco, did a lot of dives

The one thing I would say about this is that working with an instructor can really shortcut the process of getting balanced in your tanks. I switched to doubles on my own and it took me quite a while to work out the proper weighting for balance -- after a couple of years (and a tech pass from Fundies) I worked with Bob Sherwood for an afternoon, and he completely changed the way I had my harness set up, and made my life oh-so-much easier!

 

[Lobzilla]

FWIW:

I will be attending the GUE Fundies with Bob Sherwood in about 2 weeks and

• signed up because a well respected Tech instructor operating at Dutch suggested Bob as "the man" and Fundies as the venue (rather than himself taking my money)
• one of my class mates is a photographer looking for a rock solid 'dive platform' to shoot from
• 30% - 50% of our class may not continue with GUE because of incompatible interests like side mount and solo diving
• even in my short diving career have seen people that somehow got Tech certified but do not look very solid in the water when task loaded
• find doubles more stable once you found your balance and your brain has adjusted to the smaller depth window that you can control with your lungs (and that's before Bob's fine tuning)
• consider myself 'subconsciously narced' at any depth on air after watching a video of a dive and not remembering half of what the camera saw (could be Alzheimer's too ;-)

 

[doctormike]

FWIW:

I will be attending the GUE Fundies with Bob Sherwood in about 2 weeks and

• signed up because a well respected Tech instructor operating at Dutch suggested Bob as "the man" and Fundies as the venue (rather than himself taking my money)
• one of my class mates is a photographer looking for a rock solid 'dive platform' to shoot from
• 30% - 50% of our class may not continue with GUE because of incompatible interests like side mount and solo diving
• even in my short diving career have seen people that somehow got Tech certified but do not look very solid in the water when task loaded
• find doubles more stable once you found your balance and your brain has adjusted to the smaller depth window that you can control with your lungs (and that's before Bob's fine tuning)
• consider myself 'subconciously narced' at any depth on air after watching a video of a dive and not remembering half of what the camera saw (may be Alzheimer's too ;-)

Funny, I was just looking at the GUE Web site! The fundies class looks like it would be a good place to start. I don't think that I can make the Florida ones due to work, and the other ones would involve a good bit of travel.

I wonder if he (or anyone else) ever does the course at Dutch Springs? I didn't see that on the GUE Web site. I know that my local dive club had him do a one day tuneup course last year at Dutch.

Also, how do you deal with tanks for those classes that you would need to travel to by air? If you want to train with doubles, do people just rent them locally?

Mike