Advice about tech training, please...

[doctormike]

You're diving a pretty big tank + pony now, so I wonder if going to doubles is going to help that much more with extending your bottom time? Most of us dive smaller doubles, usually in the 95 to 104 cf range. May not be worth the cost to go to double just to get a little more (vs getting a lot more) more bottom time.

Good point. I guess that doubling up the 120s is a bit too much to lug around, huh? I figured that with double 100s, I could do two dives to recreational range (losing a bit of bottom time for each of them, compared with two dives with single 120s), or one longer dive...

I don't recommend rebreathers to many people, unless the way they are diving points in that direction. They are a PITA, but you can't do without them if you really need them.

If you are serious about photography + long run times + reducing your deco obligation, then a RB might be what you are looking for. And you can get them used and save some money. Something simple, small and not too expensive, like a KISS, might just be the ticket.

Without all of the bubbles fish are all over you. I think they think you are one of them and come in close to get a better view. You are not rising and falling in the water column with every breath like you are now on OC, so that gives more time to remain still and focus on your subject. It's a good platform for taking your time to get the shot you want. I won't go on, but if you are investigating which way to go, then it is an option to seriously consider.

Good luck.

Yes, the though had occurred to me, with regards to the photography. I did a couple of test flights last season on a rEvo and an Inspiration at a demo weekend. But I don't think that I'm going to do that, for a number of reasons. I think that it would take a long time for me to get back to the comfort level that I have now, so that I could take the camera. I have done a lot of macro photography and haven't seen the spooking of subjects as a major drawback. But the bottom line is that I just would feel unsafe with one.

I don't mean to make this sound like I am RB bashing (not that I have the experience to even comment intelligently!). I dive with several RB divers that I respect tremendously, and I know that many people dive them for years without incident. But what happened to Yasuko last year, and another recent event at Dutch Springs just made it a bit too hard for me to work up the nerve to seriously consider one.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm speaking out of ignorance, but I need to feel comfortable in the water. I'm not discounting the excellent points that you made, believe me there is still some appeal of that approach... Perhaps I'll reconsider in the future.

Thanks again!

Mike

 

[rjack321]

Keep that in mind, because some people just ROCK underwater but, as people, they suck . Other folks are awesome above the water, but I wouldn't do anything beyond a shallow reef dive with them. Look for balance between the two.

+1 on this.

 

[Peter Guy]

re "playing with doubles" even if you treat them as one big tank -- i.e., diving doubles "without the training."

This may be heresy but I, for one, see absolutely no reason NOT to go dive doubles if you have them or can get them. There is no need to learn about valve failures, et al, while learning how to just cope with that mass on your back. Yes, you will lose the value of the redundancy but that just makes them "massive singles." OTOH, you will just get familiar with diving them -- and then you can learn about valve failures, etc.

If you have not switched over to a Hog rig setup, you might want to do that even while diving a single. That doesn't mean you need a 7' hose, 5' or (gulp) 40" will do just fine to get you used to the idea of "primary donate" and that pesky bungeed backup under your chin.

Re what agency -- I'll admit to being very biased against "deep air" and thus I would not train with an instructor who teaches it. [Note -- Please to anyone else -- make your arguments for or against but please let's not get off track here!] I did my open water (as opposed to Cave) technical training with a NAUI instructor who does trimix below 100' and all my deco procedures/advanced Nitrox dives were done on trimix. So, before you commit to an instructor, you might also wish to think about that angle.

 

[HowardE]

Mike,

I dive with doubles more than not. I also dive hardhat, and rebreather. I dive with a camera a lot as well, sometimes with any of the above configurations. I've done long deco dives with a camera, and without. If YOU are comfortable with the camera, then what's the problem with the long deco dives. Tech diving isn't really all that difficult, especially when you're starting into it with a solid diving background. If you had maybe the minimum requirements, then task loading might be a problem. But with lots of dives, and many dives with your camera, you'd probably feel weirder without the camera than with it?

 

[doctormike]

re "playing with doubles" even if you treat them as one big tank -- i.e., diving doubles "without the training."

This may be heresy but I, for one, see absolutely no reason NOT to go dive doubles if you have them or can get them. There is no need to learn about valve failures, et al, while learning how to just cope with that mass on your back. Yes, you will lose the value of the redundancy but that just makes them "massive singles." OTOH, you will just get familiar with diving them -- and then you can learn about valve failures, etc.

That's an interesting point, and one that brings up the next question that I was going to think about. Right now, I have these two steel 120s that I bought a year or two ago, with a lot of hard miles on them. A good bit of rust under the paint and on the bottom, and at the last servicing (inside tumbled before visual inspection), the guy at my dive shop (who I trust) didn't think that these should go much further than the next hydro in a few years. So I was thinking of replacing them this year with galvanized steel tanks.

If I just get two new steel 120s, then I'm OK to continue diving like I am doing now. But if I could safely switch to a double 100 setup with a manifold to get used to the weight, the new regulator setup, etc... I am not really doing anything different if I leave the manifold alone pending further training (I would probably schedule at least one session with an instructor before taking them in the water, though).

Then I could have my new tanks without having that purchase hang on my decision to pursue tech training - as long as I continue to be careful about my NDL. Really no different from what I have now with a steel 120, just a bit more gas to get into more trouble if I'm not careful, right?

Mike

 

[doctormike]

Mike,

I dive with doubles more than not. I also dive hardhat, and rebreather. I dive with a camera a lot as well, sometimes with any of the above configurations. I've done long deco dives with a camera, and without. If YOU are comfortable with the camera, then what's the problem with the long deco dives. Tech diving isn't really all that difficult, especially when you're starting into it with a solid diving background. If you had maybe the minimum requirements, then task loading might be a problem. But with lots of dives, and many dives with your camera, you'd probably feel weirder without the camera than with it?

Exactly, it has been a long time since I dove without it..! But still, I figured for things like learning manifolds, valve drills, etc... it would be better to have two hands free. It's pretty bulky. Of course, in a true emergency in the water, I could just drop or clip off the camera (I have it on a pretty heavy tether).

I'm hoping that exactly what you say will happen, that I will get the basics down and feel more comfortable with the deco planning and execution, and just be able to pick up where I left off with the camera.

 

[HowardE]

From your photo... it looks like you're already slinging a bottle. Doubles is just two tanks on your back. It's not as difficult as many people will lead you to believe.

 

[TSandM]

Mike, you don't have to do it all at once.

You're in New York, so you have some excellent options. I would strongly recommend you take a class like Intro to Tech or (my choice, of course) GUE Fundamentals. You can take those classes IN a single tank setup, if you wish, or in doubles. They will introduce you to the skills and the standards that are pretty common in technical classes (or ought to be). You can go back to the recreational diving you are already doing and work on those skills, before taking a class that will add complexity, task-loading and scenario management to the equation.

I wouldn't worry about doing a few dives without the camera. It might actually make you look at your diving in another way (just as carrying a camera makes me do) and you might actually find it refreshing and fun for a change.

As far as double tanks go, the HP 100s are very nice, versatile tanks, that are light enough so you won't learn to hate them, and yet big enough for solid dives in the 150 foot range. They are very popular tanks around here.

As far as your future technical training would go, I think the best thing is to figure out what kind of diving the people you would be diving with are doing (and decide if you LIKE the way they are diving, which is another whole issue) and go get training that will teach you to dive that way. There is no point in finding an agency or an instructor that works for you and doesn't work for the way they dive, if your goal is to dive with them.

 

[Blackwood]

Good point. I guess that doubling up the 120s is a bit too much to lug around, huh?

eh. They're a means to an end. Rainer and I beach dived double 130s in surf last thursday night. It's not fun getting in and out and across the beach and up the stairs, but if you need the gas, you need the gas.

Generally, the big daddies are boat tanks (or cave tanks for those who dabble in tight wet holes). If beach diving doubles, I much prefer my 100s.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

I agree with Peter Guy and Howard E,

You can start diving doubles on your own on easier dives. It's a good idea to get familiar and comfortable with the setup before the training.
I started by switching to a HOG configuration on singles and dove that for awhile. Then I switched to doubles and dove that for awhile.
My Advanced Nitrox/Deco procedures class then had me add two deco bottles, which wasn't too much of a problem because I had already been diving doubles and was pretty comfortable.
Doubles (depending on tanks) isn't too difficult of a thing to do on your own. It's worth the time to get used to the setup though.
Do that for awhile, then do some dives with your camera gear. Then when you take a decompression class you can focus on the training, and task loading that it will bring.

-Mitch