Adventure Dives Vs Adventure Diver Vs Advanced Open Water (PADI)

[pSyToR]

Hi Guys,

I'm sorry if it's not in the good forum, but I'm trying to find an answer to something...

We are currently having a discussion about the different rules between Adventures - Adventure Diver and Advanced...

So basically the question is...

Once a diver did an "ADVENTURE" dive of deep dive to 30 meter, is he allowed to dive at 30 meter after that without being an Adventure dive... So he would only pay for a fun dive?

What I always understood, Advanced Open water IS the license that allows you to dive to 30 meter for fun dive.

What most people here think, as soon as you do an Adventure dive you are kind of certified to dive at 30 meter.

What I don't understand in that reasoning is that there is no proof (a card or anything) that says that someone did an Adventure Dive to 30m compared to an Advanced Certified diver.

And one last question, Adventure Diver is pretty much the same thing as Master Diver? Just a proof that you have a certain level of practice? But doesn't allow you anything special like the Advanced Open Water? Am I wrong?

 

[NAM001]

No there are adventure dives to wet the whistle or get exposure of certain dives. Then there are classes for tehose dives padi I think they are adventure classes. so ow is ow aow is ow with some adventure dives, some are specific ones. Then there are the classes like rescue and other classes that are card issued classes that with some others get you a master card. I tink nav is a required adventure dive for aow and deep (greater than 60) the deep(exposure) for aow is not the same as the deep class that gets you a deep card. it varies between agencies but they all are generally the same. like ow plus 3 exposures is aow and master is aow plus say 5 classes which must include rescue and/or first responder. as pasi goes a pasi instructor can tell youexactly what it is for padi.

I did my master with ssi and it was,,,,,rescue first responder,,, nitrox,,, deep(130),,, navigation,,, dry suit. I had more classes like equipment specialist, boat diving and some other crap classes but 5 were needed with x amount of dives.

 

[Neilwood]

IIRC the set up is as follows:

Any speciality course after OW such as Deep Diver, Night Diver etc are classed as adventure courses and a single "sample" dive from them is an adventure dive.

Adventure diver is obtained by doing 3 "adventure dives" such as the above but doesn't specify what they have to be.

Advanced OW is a 5 dive set which must include Deep and Nav but can have any other 3 with it.

Master is to have completed50 dives with a minimum of OW, AOW, Rescue (for which Emergency First Responder is a requirement) and 5 other speciality certificates.

 

[Colliam7]

So basically the question is... Once a diver did an "ADVENTURE" dive of deep dive to 30 meter, is he allowed to dive at 30 meter after that without being an Adventure dive...

A good question, and a bit tough to answer because of terminology. But, also very interesting to me because I have not been asked this before.

From my perspective, the simple answer is, 'No'. Just because you have completed an Adventure Dive (e.g. Deep), you are not 'certified' to dive to a deeper limit. A reasonable analogy might be the Open Water Diver course. Because you have completed (and logged) Open water Dive 1 does not mean you are certified as an Open Water Diver, or that you are 'certified' to dive to the depth limits of Open Water Dive 1 (40ft). However, I am now going to call PADI to confirm my impression because, as I mentioned, this is not a question that I have encountered before.

One tough part of providing an answer is that the depth limits are really not enforceable for the most part. Once I certify an Open Water Diver, and tell that diver that they are now certified to dive 'within the limits of their training and experience', they could still jump off a boat, or conduct a shore dive, to whatever depth they want, and there isn't much that could be done. Their behavior might be foolish, but there aren't 'scuba police' monitoring how deep they go.

What I always understood, Advanced Open water IS the license that allows you to dive to 30 meter for fun dive.

Yes. Certification as an Advanced Open Water Diver increases your depth 'limits' from 60 ft (after OW) to 100 ft.

What most people here think, as soon as you do an Adventure dive you are kind of certified to dive at 30 meter.

That is not correct. Logging an Adventure Dive does NOT mean that you have achieved a new 'level' of certification.

And one last question, Adventure Diver is pretty much the same thing as Master Diver? Just a proof that you have a certain level of practice? But doesn't allow you anything special like the Advanced Open Water?

That is generally correct. As an Adventure Diver, you are 'qualified' to take certain specialty courses that you could not otherwise pursue as an Open Water Diver (e.g. Deep Diver). But, you are not necessarily 'certified' to dive to a greater depth (unless one of the 3 Adventure Dives you completed was the Deep Dive).

The terminology issue may seem a little obtuse. For PADI, and probably for most training certification agencies, a diver completing a particular course is certified to dive 'within the limits of their training and experience'. For PADI, the maximum depth on any of the 4 Open Water dives during training is 60 ft. Therefore, after certification, divers are certified to dive only to 60ft, which is the limit of their training and experience at that point. Lots of OW divers go deeper, safely in most cases. For Advanced Open Water, the training dive depth limit, and therefore the depth to which the diver is 'certified' after completing the course, is 100ft (which is also the depth limit for Dive One of the Deep Diver specialty course).

But, as noted above, these 'certification limits' cannot be practically enforced by any agency after certification.

 

[CuzzA]

Hi Guys,

I'm sorry if it's not in the good forum, but I'm trying to find an answer to something...

We are currently having a discussion about the different rules between Adventures - Adventure Diver and Advanced...

So basically the question is...

Once a diver did an "ADVENTURE" dive of deep dive to 30 meter, is he allowed to dive at 30 meter after that without being an Adventure dive... So he would only pay for a fun dive?

What I always understood, Advanced Open water IS the license that allows you to dive to 30 meter for fun dive.

What most people here think, as soon as you do an Adventure dive you are kind of certified to dive at 30 meter.

What I don't understand in that reasoning is that there is no proof (a card or anything) that says that someone did an Adventure Dive to 30m compared to an Advanced Certified diver.

And one last question, Adventure Diver is pretty much the same thing as Master Diver? Just a proof that you have a certain level of practice? But doesn't allow you anything special like the Advanced Open Water? Am I wrong?

There's no "license" to dive to a certain depth. As I'm sure you know once you are OW certified you can have tanks filled which of course gives you the ability to dive. If you do a dive past your level of training there's no one to stop you except you and of course you increase the possibility of a fatal error. The "recomended" recreational depth limit is 130 ft. If anyone wants to dive to those depths they should get trained to do so. The deep adventure dive is no different than the deep dive you would do during AOW. The emphasis on that training would be re-enforcing the buddy system since it becomes much harder to perform a CESA at those depths, gas management and NDL at that depth and finally how narcosis effects you.

To answer some of your questions...Your log book would be the proof you did the adventure deep dive. It would also count toward your AOW if you decided to do it in the future. IMO, I don't see the value in those single adventure dives. Just do the AOW and get the training. Plus many LDS will package Nitrox in with AOW which saves you money.

One final point. Any diver should not be looking at certifications or cards as a "license" to do any dive. My instructor will tell you, "It's not about the certifications, it's about time in the water." A person with basic open water training who has 500 dives under their belt is going to be a better diver than someone with a bunch of certifications and only 100 dives.

 

[Bob DBF]

Your OW allows you to dive, and what your dive plans are is up to you. That being said, when using a dive op, boat or dive guide ect., you are subject to the rules that they and their insurance provider agree upon. This means that if an AOW card is required to dive to 100 feet, an Adventure dive will not meet their requirement, and unless there is an exception for a Deep Diver card, it would not work either and you would be limited to 60 feet.

I got the AOW card, after 46 years of continuous diving (17 of which I had no C-card). I had the money and time and was planning on some traveling and did not need the hassle of whether I was qualified to do a deep dive, I went on to do Deep, Rescue, and other specialties as well. Because of my age and gear, no one has actually asked me for a card, but I don't count on it, and defiantly would not if I were younger with brand new gear and no stories.

As CuzzA quoted "It's not about the certifications, it's about time in the water." A person with basic open water training who has 500 dives under their belt is going to be a better diver than someone with a bunch of certifications and only 100 dives".

One thing I do see with the newer better gear is that divers have a tendency to get too deep too fast. At 60' or less, a casualty is more apt to be an incident than an accident. In other words, if you are in your comfort zone you are more likely to respond correctly to a problem than if you are in new territory. So I advise going into new territory slowly and methodically regardless of what your certification says.


Bob
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That's my point, people, by and large, are not taught that diving can be deadly, they are taught how safe it is, and they are not equipped with the skills, taught and trained to the level required to be useful in an emergency.

 

[kelemvor]

Did PADI make their curriculum confusing on purpose?

 

[boulderjohn]

Did PADI make their curriculum confusing on purpose?

It really isn't confusing. It only seems that way because on places like ScubaBoard, so many people who do not know what they are talking about jump in with inaccurate information.

Once a diver did an "ADVENTURE" dive of deep dive to 30 meter, is he allowed to dive at 30 meter after that without being an Adventure dive... So he would only pay for a fun dive?

What I always understood, Advanced Open water IS the license that allows you to dive to 30 meter for fun dive.

As Colliam 7 said, PADI has no authority to set any rules for what you do on your personal dives. Local governments and dive operators can set rules for when you dive under their authorities. PADI does offer the suggestion that divers dive to their experience and training, which roughly corresponds for a start to 60 feet for OW trained divers, 100 feet for AOW divers, and 130 feet for recreational divers with more advanced training. That's it.

And one last question, Adventure Diveris pretty much the same thing as Master Diver? Just a proof that you have a certain level of practice? But doesn't allow you anything special like the Advanced Open Water? Am I wrong?

Not at all. Adventure Diver is a certification rarely given out. It is a step below AOW, and the only people I know who have ever done it were junior divers who could not do the AOW yet because they are not allowed to do a deep dive because of their age.

To answer some of your questions...Your log book would be the proof you did the adventure deep dive. It would also count toward your AOW if you decided to do it in the future.

It would only count toward AOW if it was done as part of an AOW class under the supervision of an instructor. There is more to it than doing the dive.

One final point. Any diver should not be looking at certifications or cards as a "license" to do any dive. My instructor will tell you, "It's not about the certifications, it's about time in the water." A person with basic open water training who has 500 dives under their belt is going to be a better diver than someone with a bunch of certifications and only 100 dives.

Maybe. Maybe not.

I have seen people with 500 dives who did them all in benign resort conditions and who look like they haven't learned a thing in the last 450 dives. I know people with 100 dives who are well into technical training who would make them look like absolute chumps.

 

[sheeper]

by way of terminology the SDI Advanced Adventure Diver is equivalent to the PADI Advanced Open Water. just to confuse some more

 

[Hawkwood]

It really isn't confusing. It only seems that way because on places like ScubaBoard, so many people who do not know what they are talking about jump in with inaccurate information.
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My all time favourite line now.