Advanced Open Water - SSI vs. PADI

[Web Monkey]

I'm doing the SSI Advanced OW course this summer. When I am finished, I'll let you all know how it went.

It's a nice program. I think the most useful out of the group are Stress & Rescue, Deep, Wreck & Nitrox, although your mileage may vary, depending on where you like to dive. Choose the classes and instructor carefully, since you're looking for knowlege and experience, not just a card.

Terry

 

[shark.byte.usa]

Here are the requirements for SSI AOW. You need to have taken the course, on the 24th dive you get the certification.

http://www.ssiusa.com/coned.htm

Your friend with 20 dives does not qualify.

You don't need 24 dives to take the course. You just need to have a total of 24 to get the certification.

Actually there is no such thing as a SSI AOW "Course" per se, as Rick pointed out some LDS tend to package 4 specialties together, to meet the 4 specialty requirement towards SSI AOW. However these can be any specialties and not include Rescue. So check with the LDS on wich 4 specialties they combine.

Your friend would have to take 2 more specialty courses, and log 4 more dives to become and SSI AOW, or just take the PADI AOW course with the others. It could possibly be no more time to acquire the SSI than the PADI for him, depending on the specialites he chooses. I'm assuming the PADI course involves some diving as well.

 

[Spratman]

LOL!! Sorry about that, Rick. I gave the Reader's Digest version...

Thank's for explaining it in full sentences. So, the AOW class can be taken after your OW certification, but no certification will be awarded until you complete 24 dives? PADI allows for the AOW certification at the end of the class, which includes one dive from five specialties, required and elected? Then five specialties are just for advancement?

For the SSI AOW, are there not X number of dives per specialty that you need to complete to be awarded the cert or is it strictly take the class and you get the cert? When I commented about 24 dives, that was assuming that I would need to have 6 dives times 4 specialty certs. This is the stuff that gets me about the various agencies...

If my reasoning is still convoluted, then I'm probably narc'd and haven't even been down that deep yet....

Jack

Whew! Even if I could follow this it'd still seem convoluted...
No, the PADI AOW rating is issued at the successful completion of the PADI AOW course. That is the only requirement for the PADI AOW card. You can end your diving career at that time and still be a PADI AOW diver...
SSI requires the completion of four specialty courses and a total of 24 logged Scuba dives for the SSI AOW card. Specialties are not "awarded at 24 dives." Specialties are acquired by successfully completing a specialty course. If you're a "card collector" you can get a separate card for each specialty, but most choose to just have the specialties listed on the AOW card.
As a practical matter, most SSI shops offer four specialties in an "AOW course." When specialties are combined this way the evaluation dives can be reduced from the normal two per specialty to six for the course by combining skills for all four specialties on some of the dives. But if a diver completes the "AOW course" before logging 24 dives, and wants a card right away, what he/she'll get is a "Specialty Diver" card with the four specialties listed until he/she has logged 24 dives, at which time the AOW card will be issued.
They are just different programs and the cards just simply mean different things.
Rick

 

[miskatonic]

LOL!! Sorry about that, Rick. I gave the Reader's Digest version...

Thank's for explaining it in full sentences. So, the AOW class can be taken after your OW certification, but no certification will be awarded until you complete 24 dives? Jack

Exactly.

 

[ofthewall]

I'm planning a trip for a few people. The shop we're working on requires that for the dives we are doing all divers must have Advanced Open Water. Some of our divers are PADI and some are SSI, and everyone is looking at getting their AOW cert before the trip. We've run into a serious issue, however.

It seems to get PADI AOW you need two courses (Open Water, and AOW) with a minimum of 10 dives (5 from each course).

For the SSI folks they need 24 dives, the Open Water course, and FOUR specialty courses, since SSI doesn't have an AOW course.

Am I reading the rules right? Seems like the dive shop is punishing SSI folks. One of our divers actually has 20 dives and 2 specialties, but that only qualifies him as a "specialty" diver and not a AOW, even though through PADI he would probably already have gotten his AOW.

Carlos

I got my OW from PADI and the went all the way to DiveCon with SSI.

I spent a load of money! The SSI shop I went through Charged me an average of $100 per class.

I am now a PADI Dive Master and Left SSI b/c of there missed placed values. They say that it is a higher standard but in the end its just more money in SSi's pocket. AOW from PADI is about $150 vs SSI $400! I do not agree with PADI in that you can be a AOW diver right after OW, but the remidy is just make at least 20 dives before you go for AOW. I say that to all the students that I see in the pool.

Open up a SSI book and count the number of times they say "A diver should buy the most expensive equipment that their budget allows"

I have been Diving for over ten years and this is the simple truth about PADI and SSI:

PADI= Proper diving skills for all situations, and creating safe divers.

SSI= Get students to spend as much money at their local SSI shop as posible.

Ask yourself why PADI has all the core specilaties in one book and SSI has a seperate book for each one. OOH yeah, one specilaty book from SSI cost more than the CORE book from PADI!

I just don't want people to get burned like I did!

 

[shark.byte.usa]

I got my OW from PADI and the went all the way to DiveCon with SSI.

I spent a load of money! The SSI shop I went through Charged me an average of $100 per class.

I am now a PADI Dive Master and Left SSI b/c of there missed placed values. They say that it is a higher standard but in the end its just more money in SSi's pocket. AOW from PADI is about $150 vs SSI $400! I do not agree with PADI in that you can be a AOW diver right after OW, but the remidy is just make at least 20 dives before you go for AOW. I say that to all the students that I see in the pool.

Open up a SSI book and count the number of times they say "A diver should buy the most expensive equipment that their budget allows"

I have been Diving for over ten years and this is the simple truth about PADI and SSI:

PADI= Proper diving skills for all situations, and creating safe divers.

SSI= Get students to spend as much money at their local SSI shop as posible.

Ask yourself why PADI has all the core specilaties in one book and SSI has a seperate book for each one. OOH yeah, one specilaty book from SSI cost more than the CORE book from PADI!

I just don't want people to get burned like I did!

Seems maybe the SSI shop you were going through had misplaced values, and yeah you did get burned. For instance, my SSI LDS charges $250 for 24 specialties, they market it as an "Expert" course, it takes 6 months to complete the course, all books included. The only other SSI shop in the area charges $185 for an "AOW" course (aka 4 specialties, as already discussed). As for buying the best gear you can afford, seems like sound advice to me. I know nothing about PADI, but I think it's unfair to compare your bad experience(s) to all SSI shops, and I don't think it's indicative of all of them. I think regardless of the Agency, the LDS is there to sell you gear, bottom line, weather you like it or not.

 

[ofthewall]

Seems maybe the SSI shop you were going through had misplaced values, and yeah you did get burned. For instance, my SSI LDS charges $250 for 24 specialties, they market it as an "Expert" course, it takes 6 months to complete the course, all books included. The only other SSI shop in the area charges $185 for an "AOW" course (aka 4 specialties, as already discussed). As for buying the best gear you can afford, seems like sound advice to me. I know nothing about PADI, but I think it's unfair to compare your bad experience(s) to all SSI shops, and I don't think it's indicative of all of them. I think regardless of the Agency, the LDS is there to sell you gear, bottom line, weather you like it or not.

You are right about the selling part but some do it nicer that others.
As far as my SSI experience, it goes for all the SSI shops with in a 75 mile radius, and there a quite a few.

I just see SSI as trying to keep you in class.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Ask yourself why PADI has all the core specilaties in one book and SSI has a seperate book for each one. OOH yeah, one specilaty book from SSI cost more than the CORE book from PADI!

I just don't want people to get burned like I did!

Almost all of the PADI specialties have their own book that you will need to purchase if you want a certification in that specialty. The exceptions are specialties like ice and cavern that have no text at all.

All that's in the PADI OW manual is a primer on each specialty and the first half of the knowledge review for each...the second half of each knowledge review is in the text for that specialty.

 

[Damselfish]

Open up a SSI book and count the number of times they say "A diver should buy the most expensive equipment that their budget allows"

As for buying the best gear you can afford, seems like sound advice to me.

"most expensive" and "best" are not necessarily the same thing

 

[Spratman]

I understand that AOW = 24 dives.

What I am asking is:

AOW = 24 of any type of dives or

Deep Dive 6
Nav 6
Wreck 6
Night __6___
AOW = 24

Exactly.