Advanced dives for beginners?

[Prop Joe]

Who are you talking to and what are you trying to say? This immediately followed what I posted, but if there is a connection, it eludes me.

No connection. Sorry, You're on my ignore list and would not even respond otherwise.
Be well.

 

[ggunn]

No connection. Sorry, You're on my ignore list and would not even respond otherwise.
Be well.

I don't know what I ever did to you, but whatever it was, I apologize.

 

[Ms. Ann Thrope]

Without getting into the politics of who may favor or snipe at what shops, I think Maracaibo can be relatively easy or hard, depending much on how the dive is led.

We've done Maracaibo with two different shops, and they were two totally different experiences. The first time, we had been with a shop for several days (our only trip with them) but found ourselves on a boat with a DM and divers we had not yet been out with. The other divers were gung ho to do Maracaibo. We dropped to about 150-160, the top of the reef, took a quick look (no sharks) and spent the rest of the dive drifting through the blue. It wasn't great, and I wouldn't think it appropriate for anyone with only a few dives or who was otherwise having any issues.

The second time we did Maracaibo, we were with Aldora, and they said they had a better way of doing the dive. We dropped by the arch and worked our way to the shallows, which were beautiful. It was a good dive, and ultimately hardly any deeper than a lot of other first dives, and less swift than some. We had a slightly less experienced diver on board. He was fit and calm, and other than not being the lightest breather among us, he was fine. And, of course, the tanks are enormous. I'm not here as an Aldora cheerleader--but huge props to DM Edgar for creating that fine dive.

We'll be back with our most frequented shop next trip. They've never taken us to Maracaibo, and it's fine if they never do, though I'm glad I've done it, especially since Aldora redeemed it for us.

I think those published dive guides have been using the same site descriptions for years. It's possible that few had yet found ways of doing Maracaibo without quite so much depth and exposure (and 80cf tanks). Done the second way, it's probably still an "advanced" site, but it doesn't feel like you're doing something potentially borderline stupid. I still can't see it being anyone's first-dive-of-the-trip site, though.

 

[Ron Lee]

As Ann notes, Maracaibo may have significantly different sections. My limited number of trips there is not adequate to know the entire topography.

My first trip there I did go deeper than 100'. I am sketchy on the depth of the first part of the reef reached but it may have been around 100'. Maybe there are places where the top of the reef is around 150'. But the other section she described sounds exactly like my recent trips there. A nice, relatively easy dive, with different coral scenery than Palancar (as best as I can discern).

Add in the larger tanks and it makes for a safe dive even with the initial portion being deeper than Paradise, but probably not much deeper than most dives on Santa Rosa wall.

 

[Mossman]

Reviewing the OP's post again, I can see where I was fooled into thinking he was on an advanced dive for his first dive of the trip:

"Day two they put me on the bigboy boat and I got to dive Maricaibo and Paseo de Cedral."

After all, what else could be meant by "bigboy boat", unless he was talking about a boat specially set aside for rotund male divers?

 

[halocline]

No help from me. Honestly, I got so narced at 170 that I don't even remember the dive, just the 22 minutes of deco

Just out of curiosity, did you dive to this depth on a single tank of air? Did you have a pre-planned deco plan, with redundant gas for contingency? Do you have decompression dive training? IOW, did you treat this as a planned technical dive?

Depending on your answers, you might want to refrain from questioning others' dive safety...just saying.

---------- Post added March 21st, 2013 at 06:06 PM ----------

Depends on how much cash he flashed maybe?

I'm not sure if you've ever been to Cozumel, but unless you have some evidence that Cozumel DMs will bend safe diving practices for a few extra bucks, I wouldn't make any assumptions. Having been there many times, I can say that the reputable successful dive ops will not.

 

[Ray and Pam]

Just out of curiosity, did you dive to this depth on a single tank of air?
Mossman don't need no stinking tanks, he takes one deep breath and in he goes with a Tecata for balast until he hits bottom, looks around awhile then does a decompression stop just to finish the Tecata.
Did you have a pre-planned deco plan, with redundant gas for contingency?
Redundant Gas, he's got plenty, after all he's in Mexico eating Mexican food.
. Do you have decompression dive training? IOW, did you treat this as a planned technical dive?
Technically, he didn't plan the dive, he fell in when the boat slowed suddenly and once he was in what the hell, see whats here, must be a good spot since the boat slowed down.
Serioulsy though, Mossman, looking forward to your upcoming trip, love your drinking-diving-drunken-drinking-deep diving-drinking raping and pilaging trip report from last year. Also, I'm not responsible for anything I say tonite because I'm also celebrating the 2 week Bonaire trip we just signed up for today.

 

[Mossman]

Just out of curiosity, did you dive to this depth on a single tank of air? Did you have a pre-planned deco plan, with redundant gas for contingency? Do you have decompression dive training? IOW, did you treat this as a planned technical dive?

Depending on your answers, you might want to refrain from questioning others' dive safety...just saying.

Yes to the decompression dive training. Yes to the single tank of air - it was a 120 and was plenty of air for the dive. No, I did not treat a bounce to 170' as a technical dive because it was a recreational dive IMNSHO, just like the other recreational dives I've done to similar depths.

I was questioning whether someone with far less experience and training than me, i.e. the OP newbie, had done a similar dive profile because, obviously, that would be less safe than me doing that profile. Can you understand that?

---------- Post added March 21st, 2013 at 07:10 PM ----------

I'm not sure if you've ever been to Cozumel, but unless you have some evidence that Cozumel DMs will bend safe diving practices for a few extra bucks, I wouldn't make any assumptions. Having been there many times, I can say that the reputable successful dive ops will not.

So what's your point. That Cozumel DMs will bend safe diving practices for no extra bucks? Or is it your belief that diving Maracaibo to 170' on a single tank with no pre-planned deco calculations and no redundancy is a safe diving practice?

 

[halocline]

Yes to the decompression dive training. Yes to the single tank of air - it was a 120 and was plenty of air for the dive. No, I did not treat a bounce to 170' as a technical dive because it was a recreational dive IMNSHO, just like the other recreational dives I've done to similar depths.

I was questioning whether someone with far less experience and training than me, i.e. the OP newbie, had done a similar dive profile because, obviously, that would be less safe than me doing that profile. Can you understand that?

Where did you figure that the OP did a bounce dive to 170 ft, or anything even remotely similar to that? The quote that you started this thread with only stated that he went to Maracaibo, nothing about the dive profile. Unless you have some other source of information, you're assuming pretty much everything.

Since you apparently have taken decompression training, can you point to anything in a recognized deco class that would sanction a dive on air to 170 ft with a single tank, no redundancy, and consider this to be a recreational dive? I doubt it, which means you have the training but are choosing to ignore it. And yet you seem to have an opinion about another diver's behavior, one that you don't even know anything about except he went to a specific site with very few dives and posted about it on the internet.

If you think that single tank air diving to 170 ft with no redundancy and a significant deco obligation is safe (your word) simply because you do it frequently, then you're fooling yourself. Can you understand that?

---------- Post added March 22nd, 2013 at 07:39 AM ----------

Or is it your belief that diving Maracaibo to 170' on a single tank with no pre-planned deco calculations and no redundancy is a safe diving practice?

I don't get this statement....it's apparently your belief, not mine, based on your own description of your dive. And again, where did you get the information that the other diver who's safety you're questioning did a dive anything like this?

 

[Mossman]

Where did you figure that the OP did a bounce dive to 170 ft, or anything even remotely similar to that? The quote that you started this thread with only stated that he went to Maracaibo, nothing about the dive profile. Unless you have some other source of information, you're assuming pretty much everything.

I assumed because: (1) Maracaibo is usually done as a deep dive, beyond "recreational" profiles, with planned deco. You can look that up on the internet. (2) OP said he was going on the "big boy's" boat, which I assumed meant the experienced-divers boat, not the fat man's boat. Just because you lack the ability to read between the lines doesn't mean others do.

Since you apparently have taken decompression training, can you point to anything in a recognized deco class that would sanction a dive on air to 170 ft with a single tank, no redundancy, and consider this to be a recreational dive? I doubt it, which means you have the training but are choosing to ignore it. And yet you seem to have an opinion about another diver's behavior, one that you don't even know anything about except he went to a specific site with very few dives and posted about it on the internet.

If you think that single tank air diving to 170 ft with no redundancy and a significant deco obligation is safe (your word) simply because you do it frequently, then you're fooling yourself. Can you understand that?

I don't get this statement....it's apparently your belief, not mine, based on your own description of your dive. And again, where did you get the information that the other diver who's safety you're questioning did a dive anything like this?

It's obvious from your post that you do not believe doing a 170' dive on a single tank is safe. See, words like "you're fooling yourself" give it away. It's called implication. You should look that word up too.

Now here's the issue: You told another poster that reputable Cozumel DMs will not take a bribe to "look the other way" and let someone do an unsafe dive profile. Yet you call the dive profile I did with a reputable DM "unsafe" and I didn't even have to bribe him. Hence, either (1) DMs do take divers on unsafe profiles in Cozumel (with or without bribes) or (2) my 170' profile was safe. Make up your mind, you can't have it both ways.

I was trained to drive under the posted speed limit. I routinely ignore that training. Anyone who ever dives deeper than the "recreational" limit, such as PADI OW divers who dive below 60' without having taken the "deep dive specialty class" are ignoring their training. In order words, this occurs on a daily basis all over Cozumel. So what's your point? Do you believe this is a good idea, or are you going to boycott Cozumel for its "unsafe" diving practices?