Accumulated 02 following a large number of repetitive Nitrox dives over 3 days.

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

Oceanic computers track OTUs in the last 24 hrs and alarm at 300.

Shearwater computers use 90 min half life of O2 exposure to reduce your OTUs.

It's pretty hard for recreational divers to get to 300 OTUs. So most of us don't even think about it. My NAUI Nitrox textbook only had a few sentences mentioning not to exceed your OTUs. But it is possible to get there diving very frequently like on a multiday liveaboard.

Sort of a general comment made earlier and worth repeating for late comers to this thread....

The models, rules, algorithms - whatever you want to call them - that we use for oxygen toxicity (both CNS and pulmonary) are just our "best effort" to give guidance about what is likely safe versus what is likely not safe, or at least what is entering into a realm of risk that most people would rather avoid. What these "rules" are certainly not is a precise measure of anything.

Is the half-time credit for CNS really a half-time? If so, is the time 90 minutes or 120 minutes (does God like to work with round numbers?). How variable is that half time, if it is, for different people? We know, as @doctormike explained that time/exposure are variables in CNS risk, though the relationship is not linear. What is that relationship, exactly? Don't know. We can approximate it based on empirical data, but this isn't like the situation where we can measure it how long it takes to metabolize alcohol (even that is variable, though at least it can be directly measured).

How is the risk of a CNS or pulmonary hit affected by other factors like whether you vape, are a CO2 retainer, have a lot of inert gas loading? What about how hard you are working or whether you are cold or tired or hungover or on meds? Some people can tolerate 1.3 PO2 day after day without it hurting their eyes, others are sensitive to hyperoxic myopia and cannot. Lots of mysteries.

I can tell you that I would be far more comfortable hitting 125% on the CNS clock because I did an hour or two of deco at a high PO2 than I would be hitting 95% if I were swimming into a current at 100'. We know exertion plays a factor. We also know that our model does not account for it.

These formulas - the CNS clock and OTUs - are just approximations work "enough" to serve as the basis for responsible dive planning. They are intentionally conservative -- precisely because we don't know everything. There is no guarantee that following these guidelines will keep you 100% safe, though it is believed that the risk would be quite small. It's a spectrum of risk. At the limits, what works one day may not work the next.

That is a very long disclaimer and response to some of the posts scattered among the last several pages that seem to imply a certitude about these guidelines that is probably misplaced. It doesn't make a lot of sense to split hairs about oxtox because we don't have a defined hair to split.

On a recent LoB I did 30 dives over 9 days all nitrox (28-30%). Average depth 25m, average dive time 45min (total dive time 1350min). Mostly easy dives, but several were current battles. I dive a SW. Max CNS was 20%.

Anyone can/want to guesstimate of my OTU/pulmonary exposure?

Sounds like on some of the shallower dives where Nitrox was only used to: a/ stick with the group, b/ perhaps some KISS from the LoB/divers in general, it might be wise next time to use air?
 
80' for 45 min on EAN30 is 47 OTUs and 16% on the CNS clock (starting from 0). Your bottom PO2 is only a little over 1. Plenty conservative. Stay on the geezer gas....
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jay
Its time and exposure. It’s not linear time and exposure. Like most biological systems, there are limits beyond which the tissues react differently. Otherwise, what does - for example - the NOAA CNS toxicity table represent?

To use your example, the NOAA CNS limit for a single dive at PO2 of 1.0 is 300 minutes. Hard to get large data sets for those dives, but it’s certainly a consideration when planning long CCR dives. Interestingly, there are plenty of people on this board (and probably in this thread) who have far exceeded CNS 100% on such dives and they will tell you about it.

But it’s not as simple as max PO2 only.
And in fact, even in deco situations, do you know or anyone toxing at 1.0 PPO2? I think not, and probably not at 1.2 either? If not it probably means that the NOAA 300 minute limit is nonsense.
 
Thank you for this.

"But if you dive with a high OTU accumulation, you may be more prone to getting a CNS hit on your next dive even if your dive is less than the standard 1.4 O2 pressure limit." Where did you learn this? I'm not a technical diver, so I don't need too many details, but sometimes I like a little bit.....

"The CNS part about lower level O2 exposure and clearance are not so clear cut" Just for clarity of my understanding, may I restate as "The CNS part about lower PPO2 exposure and safe diving are not so clear cut in cases of high OTU accumulation"? Does that match what you are saying? Please clarify if not.

And from Dive Rite (again this is some extreme diving, way beyond recreational and is talking about a single dive, but illustrates the cumulative effect of O2 tox on CNS):

Oxygen Toxicity and CCR/Rebreather Diving | Dive Rite

CNS O2 toxicity is a result of cumulative damage in the cells. At the end of a rebreather dive that requires decompression a significant amount of damage has occurred. If you then increase the pO2 you will increase the rate of damage and you will dramatically increase the risk of suffering an O2 convulsion, even if you are at rest.
 
And in fact, even in deco situations, do you know or anyone toxing at 1.0 PPO2? I think not, and probably not at 1.2 either? If not it probably means that the NOAA 300 minute limit is nonsense.

I don't know if it's nonsense, but I have read that it was based more on operational decisions rather than research. That's what I was getting at by pointing out that many tech divers end up racking up far beyond 100% of the limit without symptoms. And of course, there are CNS symptoms besides seizing.
 
I don't know if it's nonsense, but I have read that it was based more on operational decisions rather than research. That's what I was getting at by pointing out that many tech divers end up racking up far beyond 100% of the limit without symptoms. And of course, there are CNS symptoms besides seizing.
What are some of the other CNS symptoms?
 
No, you mean P, not PO2, where P is the total pressure; P=PPO2+PPN2. Dalton's Law.
I just saw on a sight where teh 3 terms were used Po2 was the ambient pressure applied on the gas Fo2 was percentage of O2 and the PPO2 was at he result of the two. so for a 100 foot dive PO2 was 4 ATM fO2 WAS .32 AND PPO2 was 1.28.


I agree that if you look up PO2 with google it says it is the same as PPO2. When I saw it it threw me. I am tinking it was some ones diagram for training. It was a circle with a horizontal line through the middle and the bottom half was virtical split also on top of the horizontal it was marked with a divide sign the virtical line below had a Multiply sign on it. the top was space was marked PPO2 the bottom portions was marked PO2 and the other FO2. I dont think it was using standard labeling but specific ones geared for PPO2 explanation for that video or article. I think they should have used ambient in place of PO2 to be correct.
 
What are some of the other CNS symptoms?

Visual disturbance
Ear ringing
Nausea
Twitching
Irritability
Dizziness
 

Back
Top Bottom