Accident waiting to happen

[Prostar]

It sounds like you have a very nice place. Do you have any pictures?

And directions? Really good directions would be nice.

 

[timle]

Years ago, I put nails in a board and hid it nail end up in the tall grass. It was pretty evident that some trespassers had a bad day driving on that.

Way to endanger people and wildlife!

There are lots of caves in Florida State Parks, many of them unmanned. There is a honor box and signs warning about which springs are open to non-caver divers and which ones aren't. This seems to work for the majority of people.

http://www.southeasternoutdoors.com/outdoors/caving/arkansas-cave-protection-act.html

SECTION 5. Cave conservation.

Any cave owner may, at the owner's discretion and with the consent of the Arkansas Natural Heritage Commission, enter into an agreement with the Arkansas Natural Heritage Commission for the purpose of applying conservation measures to the owner's cave.

SECTION 6. Liability of owners limited.

Neither the owner of a cave nor his employees or agents acting within the scope of their authority shall be liable for injuries sustained by any person using the cave for recreational or scientific purposes if no charge has been made for the use of the cave. This section is supplemental to any other limitation of landowner liability which may be in effect.

 

[plot]

Some type of an underwater gate could stop them I'd think. When you really think about it, it wouldn't have to be much of a gate. A diver can't get through an arrea smaller than what? 2' by 2'? So fabricate some type of metal barred gate taking that into consideration with wide openings. There'd be more than enough room for debree and whatever else to get through, just not humans.

Depending on how big the opening is, weld a bunch of fence posts togethor with 2'x2' gaps (maybe slightly smaller or larger depending on what everyone else thinks).

 

[DandyDon]

If you are worried about safety you could just blast the entrance shut.Would not be the first time!!

Bad idea

 

[roakey]

Now that the cat's out of the bag, have you contacted the NSS-CDS or the NACD for suggestions?

NSS-CDS: http://www.nsscds.com/
NACD: http://www.safecavediving.com/

Roak

 

[SeaLevelScuba]

...Yesterday I was informed that a cave diver had announced that he had bypassed the usual cave route by entering the spring entrance to the cave and swam through until it opened up into a room....

Publicly name the idiot, post a no trespassing sign (this way the idiots that dont know what land ownership means will be informed they are not to be there, pretty stupid requirement IMHO), and install a grate that is maintainable that will not allow law abiding individuals in and not allow criminal trespassers out. After all there is a room in there and its probably a good place to sit the off season pondering if it was all worth it. Its a shame for what it sounds like your trying to do there someone would do this knowing it'll probably lead to more restrictive access versus less. Hope the local community there helps you in this, while you do have access to the resource for them, that access can just as quickly be taken away. Good luck

Schott

ps: One last sign "All surviving trespassers will be prosecuted"

 

[MikeFerrara]

Some type of an underwater gate could stop them I'd think. When you really think about it, it wouldn't have to be much of a gate. A diver can't get through an arrea smaller than what? 2' by 2'? So fabricate some type of metal barred gate taking that into consideration with wide openings. There'd be more than enough room for debree and whatever else to get through, just not humans.

Depending on how big the opening is, weld a bunch of fence posts togethor with 2'x2' gaps (maybe slightly smaller or larger depending on what everyone else thinks).

I don't think you're quit getting a handle on the kind of stuff that can be washed down some caves. I've been in dry caves (if you can ever call a cave dry) where there were HUGE tree trunks lodged between rocks up near the ceiling. Some caves drain alot of water during heavy rain and floods. Big things like trees and many tons of mud and other debris get washed down like a monster sized toilet being flushed. Depending on the cave, of course, the grate could get torn off or the spring could get blocked. If you were to block the drainage of a cave like that, the water has to go someplace it's possible that you could cause a flood where there normally isn't one.

And no...you don't want to be in some caves like this when it's raining because you too will get washed away.

Of course I have no idea what this cave is like, how much water it drains or how often but you would probably want to know something about the hydrology of the area before putting a grate across a spring.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Publicly name the idiot, post a no trespassing sign (this way the idiots that dont know what land ownership means will be informed they are not to be there, pretty stupid requirement IMHO), and install a grate that is maintainable that will not allow law abiding individuals in and not allow criminal trespassers out. After all there is a room in there and its probably a good place to sit the off season pondering if it was all worth it. Its a shame for what it sounds like your trying to do there someone would do this knowing it'll probably lead to more restrictive access versus less. Hope the local community there helps you in this, while you do have access to the resource for them, that access can just as quickly be taken away. Good luck

Schott

ps: One last sign "All surviving trespassers will be prosecuted"

In theory, a diver entering from the other side should have the gas to get back because he should have either set up the traverse (already dived in from the other side) or be reaching the spring before hitting thirds...in theory.

Still, I would want any one entering from either end to know the grate is there otherwise it could really become an accident waiting to happen. I think the idea is to keep unwanted visitors out rather than to execute them after the fact.

 

[bouteloa]

I lost this for a few days, sorry. There are some very good ideas here and a few that wouldn't work.

I do have a 'No Trespassing' sign on the road into the property which the rogue cave diver drove by. Apparently was not effective. It might be effective for law-abiders but then they are not the problem.

Though the cave itself is one of the top 100 caves in size, very little diving is involved inside (I think) so I don't think it would a commercial venture. I have only been a few miles inside. Caving is physically exhausting.

The local caver community is a good ally - but then I make certain to open the cave to them once a year when the endangered species aren't in residence. They are the ones getting a cave diver to check things out.

Nobody lives near the cave and it is surrounded by public land. I live 3 hours away. So no onsite monitoring. (Plus I have to work, dangit).

The Arkansas Natural Heritage Commission might be able to do something on paper but only a few people work there and they are hours away from being effective.

I might look into getting a grant for a motion-detecting camera that I could monitor from home or work. That would be cool. I could call the local wildlife officer.

I have heard that entering the cave from the other end requires putting one's arms in front and pushing with toes and feet for a half a mile. Not for me, thanks.

 

[DandyDon]

See the UserCP in the bar above? If you click that when you come on, you'll see all threads you've subscribed with new pots - and you probly subscribe to a thread automatically when you post on one. That is the default.

I have the UserCP page on my favs and always come on thru it.