Accident in Belize

[bowlofpetunias]

Remember we are not determining fault o laying blame. We are trying to consider factors that may have contributed to the incident.

So far we have a diver who is reported to be very experienced.

Sea conditions were reported to be pretty rough

There seems to be agreement that impact with the prop was the cause of injuries

Diver was recovered from the water unconscious. We have no report on time frame to find and rescue him.

With the reported experience of the diver I wonder if he might have been distracted by another diver. Instructors often make it a habit of "watching out" for other divers in the water. Pure speculation on my part but I wonder if something like that could explain things..

 

[adamcnabb]

Hello my name is adam mcnabb. the diver in the accident in belize is my dad Gary. I was not there i do not know what happened. I do know my dads diving skills and experience. Just to update the community of divers which he considers family. Dad was airlifted from belize to san antonio university hospital were i am writing this post from. The injury he received is very severe.Any and all Prayers , good vibes, happy thoughts for him his lovely wife frances and family is appreciated. Those who know my dad Gary (leisure time dive center in chattanooga) the past couple of years has been lets just say rough waters. after thirty years he had to close the doors of his shop (leisure Time Dive) Dad moved to Tampa florida with his wife frances and yes his dan insurance after over thirty years apparently between all these life changes for some reason was not renewed only to be brought to light after the incident.
Fellow divers this incident should remind us all 1 add to dive plans, the local medical service ( the ability they have to handle trauma) 2. medical evacuation plans 3. Insurance Insurance Insurance

Fellow Divers with deep respect and love for the greatest man (DIVER) God blessed me with for a father
with a heavy sadden heart
I SAY
DIVER DOWN
DADDY I LOVE YOU

 

[ZombieZombie]

Heartbreaking Adam. Your Dad is in my thoughts and I am sure those of everyone who reads this page. If it is not an imposition or too difficult, I am sure we would all appreciate updates on his progress.

Just as a reminder to any family members reading these pages, the purpose of any speculation is to assist other divers in thinking about risks and hopefully having fewer accidents in future. Usually these pages settle down once the facts are known, but it does benefit the community as a whole to consider all of the possible factors.

 

[irishsquid]

Speculation - I detest it. The man severely injured in this "diving" accident was a dear friend of ours. He owned and ran a PADI Dive Shop in our city for many, many years ... Probably more experienced in the diving industry than anyone posting on this board. Prayers he is able to recover from this horrible injury. If anyone has first hand knowledge of what happened, please post or message so we can pass on to his family.

Not that I disagree with the meat of your post, but this tidbit is highly unlikely.

Nothing wrong defending a downed friend. The impression I get from Scubatennessee is her friend was such an experienced diver it was the boats fault for the injury. Am I off base? At our ages, we all have had loved ones and friends get sick, injured or die. Unfortunately it's life. An immediate response is to try to lay blame on something or someone, when in fact it's out of our/their control. I don't think the diver's character or ability was in question. To imply the boat was at fault with no substantiated facts, is more speculation which we detest.

Scubatennesse, I too feel your pain, but; I have to agree with Tom and Vincent's post. I was certified through Gary's shop and my OW instructor, who was employed by Gary was where I learned of this accident (on FB). I immediately came to SB to see if there was any news on here. No one here is trying to lay blame, or make derogatory statements about Gary or his skills. Unfortunately, most of the info in this forum is nothing but speculation and educated guesses. That is all that can be discussed, until the facts and/or first hand eye witness accounts come forward. I can agree that Gary was experienced, knowledgeable, and I enjoyed diving with him on several occasions. I started my Tech Diving through Gary's efforts to expand opportunities via TDI for us land locked divers. I would say don't sell anyone on here short when it comes to experience. I have learned quite a bit and have dived with more than a few folks from SB and can say without a doubt, Gary wouldn't have hesitated a second to dive with many of them and would respect their knowledge and skills. Understand that I am not bashing or trying to dress you down.
If you're a member of CDC on FB, I am Jimi and a member also. We may know each other and have met before.

Hello my name is adam mcnabb. the diver in the accident in belize is my dad Gary. I was not there i do not know what happened. I do know my dads diving skills and experience. Just to update the community of divers which he considers family. Dad was airlifted from belize to san antonio university hospital were i am writing this post from. The injury he received is very severe.Any and all Prayers , good vibes, happy thoughts for him his lovely wife frances and family is appreciated. Those who know my dad Gary (leisure time dive center in chattanooga) the past couple of years has been lets just say rough waters. after thirty years he had to close the doors of his shop (leisure Time Dive) Dad moved to Tampa florida with his wife frances and yes his dan insurance after over thirty years apparently between all these life changes for some reason was not renewed only to be brought to light after the incident.
Fellow divers this incident should remind us all 1 add to dive plans, the local medical service ( the ability they have to handle trauma) 2. medical evacuation plans 3. Insurance Insurance Insurance

Fellow Divers with deep respect and love for the greatest man (DIVER) God blessed me with for a father
with a heavy sadden heart
I SAY
DIVER DOWN
DADDY I LOVE YOU

Adam, thanks for the information and my prayers and well wishes for Gary. When possible and appropriate, please tell him Jimi says get well and God Bless!

 

[KathyV]

There's a post on another forum that says the propeller was moving.

Gary McNabb diving accident.. Grave condition

To just update you on master Gary McNabb. It is sad to say he suffered a major head injury while on a dive trip in Belize. I write this with great sadness his head was hit by a moving propeller. He was airlifted to Texas in a coma. His condition is very very grave. Please pray for Gary and his Family...

 

[bowlofpetunias]

Since we can't be sure of the source and accuracy of that post I am not inclined to take it as absolute truth. Moving propeller could be anything from a powered up prop to one moving from water current

I have only once had someone ask me to board with an engaged prop. Before I had time to respond one of the experienced divers in the water suggested the boat captain engage in an anatomically impossible attempt at procreation. Nobody was willing to climb the ladder right beside the running prop!

I have done a couple "Hot drops" but that is with the boat moving away from you as you exit. Can anyone tell me if they have ever done an entry with the prop running but the boat not moving away from the entry point? Not sure I can imagine a situation like that.

I would speculate that it would take a lot of water activity to push a diver into a Prop of a boat that is moving away.

Are we sure if this happened on entry?

Unless someone actually SAW him get hit by the Prop we can never be sure. People who were there but did not actually witness the impact can speculate with perhaps more chance of accuracy than we can. Unfortunately in many of these incident there isn't a true eye witness of the actual event. All we can do is theorize and hope that the information from those who were there gives us something concrete to go on.

 

[DandyDon]

I have had embarrassing times that I found myself under boats. Even with the prop still, it can be dangerous as those things move unexpectedly. How his accident happened, I wouldn't know.

There's a post on another forum that says the propeller was moving.

Aside from the people on the boat, everyone else is repeating what they've heard - and we know how repeats get confused even with the best of intentions. Even of the people on that boat that day, some may not know for sure.

 

[danvolker]

I have done a couple "Hot drops" but that is with the boat moving away from you as you exit. Can anyone tell me if they have ever done an entry with the prop running but the boat not moving away from the entry point? Not sure I can imagine a situation like that.

I would speculate that it would take a lot of water activity to push a diver into a Prop of a boat that is moving away.

Are we sure if this happened on entry?

.

If you are drift diving, and the intended dive is on a wreck or a SPECIFIC place on a reef.....the captain is essentially running the boat along a path ( which is from gps, or visual marks), and as he approaches where he thinks the desired structure will be, he begins to look ALSO at the fathometer....often when the captain suddenly sees the fathometer show a huge spike, signifying that he has just arrived at the dive site in this "path", the captain will then try to "FIX" the issue that he has just driven the boat over and beyond the ideal point -- Let's say the inertia carried the boat 20 feet too far --so he reverses the engines, going from 5 mph forward, to 5 mph backward....and he does this for about 2 seconds.....
Normally at this point, you would expect the captain to shut down the engine....However, there are captains that instead, will throttle down to minimum, and then shift to neutral....and then say "DIVE, DIVE, DIVE"....
The problem is, when he throttles down to minimum, he might "think" he then succeeds in getting the engine in neutral, but he does NOT actually know for sure if the prop has stopped spinning. It is even possible for the shifter to be in the neutral position, but for the prop to continue to be engaged. Boats are NOT like your car in this.
If this did happen , and the divers jumped in, the boat could be slowly backing up...with the divers thinking they are about 3 feet to 5 feet behind it, as they begin to dump BC, perform final checks, and start to descend---in the next 4 seconds, the divers go from being plenty far away from the boat, to having the boat catch them as it backs up, and begin to run over them.

This is why you don't let a captain drop you with his engines still on. But even most divers that have done thousands of hot drops, will not be thinking of this....we tend to do what the captain tells us, and DIVE means dive....It is a MAJOR issue in drift diving, one that has gotten very little attention from anyone. In this scenario, the real fault is with the captain and boat. The diver is not supposed to be forced to second guess the captain's commands. Because WE may decide that this is an industry wide mistake, ignored by the industry, we might suggest that all of us think about CHANGING the way we react to Captain commands, like the Dive command.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

Thanks Dan that give a much clearer picture of what MIGHT have happened in this situation and why! Does this process you discribe happen often? Certainly gives me a lot to think about since I am planning another trip to dive Florida

I do tend to prefer shore dives where possible. That way with local knowledge you can have much more "control" of your diving. Boat Captains have to adhere to schedules to make operating boats financially viable.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

A diver could be hit and killed by a prop when the boat is not in gear. I like to have divers drop off the rear and sides of the boat while the boat is still moving. This is the safest way. The boat should be moving forward, the captain gives the dive, dive dive command and should take the boat out of gear immediately before giving the command. I like to have the boat moving forward, because it is less likely to hurt a diver.

The boat should be moving SLOWLY forward. If the boat is stopped, and it is windy.. then what happens? A: the boat begins to move down wind and the captain can NOT do anything about it, because other divers have just entered the water. If he puts the boat in gear, he can chop them up.

I worry about a situation where there are a lot of people to get off the boat, and there is a strong wind and the people delay in exiting the boat (for any of 1000 reasons). If that happens, and say a diver rolls off the (downwind) side of the boat, sinks down a little, the wind blows the boat sideways over the diver and it is not too hard to imagine a diver popping up head first into the prop which can be slamming up and down and very capable of causing significant injury.

Again if the boat is out of gear, moving forward slightly with residual inertia, then it is unlikely for a diver to end up under the boat and hitting the running gear.

Also, even if the captain should have accidentally left the boat in gear (going forward) as he gives the dive command, it is still unlikely for the diver to be hurt by the prop. The key here is the forward speed helps to get the boat away from the diver.