A720 IS Strobe, housing and other questions

[DivingPrincessE]

OK so after reading more about cameras then I ever thought I would, I think I have somewhat come to a decision that I want to get the Canon A 720 IS...maybe

Strobe
Question number 1: If I use this camera (with canon housing) primarily in tropical waters with good visibility, do I need a strobe? If yes, what are some moderately prices strobes that are compatible with the 720?

Housing
Question number 2: Do I just need the cannon housing (ebay $169) OR do I need the housing "kit" with--Canon WP-DC16 Waterproof Housing for the PowerShot Digital A720 IS Camera, Canon WWDC1 Weight for Waterproof and All Weather Cases, 4 Rechargeable Batteries w/ Charger, Olympus Silicone Grease, Olympus Silica Gel 5 Pack--for $209 on amazon??

OR should I get the ikelite housing because I can add on lenses (see below quote)???

Topside
Question 3: Any idea as to whether or not this is a good topside camera as well?

Other A series
Question 4: I think I want the A720 but A570 and A640 are also viable options. I have read different opinions on which is better, so it isn't very clear.

Thumbs up A640

Reasons I got the A640 - I want to go DSLR in the future, the A640 has a full manual mode, so I can learn.

-it's an old model - so it is cheap - being run out, and still around for a bargain price.

-Good macro - down to 1cm (less than half an inch)
-adjustable flash power.
-"good" picture quality.
-Raw - there is a hack available on the net that will allow you to capture in 8bit RAW - it means you you have a little more flexibility should you wish to adjust your pics.
-4xaa batteries. This means it takes lots of shots, I can use rechargeables, and if all goes to hell, you can get AA's from pretty much anywhere on the planet
-Movie mode - good enough to show on a TV without looking like crap.


I have not used the A570, or A720, but have seen VERY good results from both.

I'd suggest getting the Ike housing if you at all plan to get serious in the future - this allows add on lenses and so on, but it is not essential.

Thumbs up A720

The a640 is a discontinued model so you may get a better deal on it. The a720is has several features over the a640: Optical Image Stability, DigicIII processor with face recognition vs. DigicII processor, 6x optical zoom vs. 4x, and slightly less shutter lag.

The A640 may be discontinued or whatever, but it is in no way cheaper than the A720...it's almost double the cost!

I also know about the RAW thing on the 640, and how it hasn't been hacked on the 720 yet. I'm not too concerned because a) I think it will be hacked eventually and b) even after reading the wikipedia page on RAW I still have no idea what the heck it is...so I doubt I'll be using it..or doing it...

There is los of good feedback on the A570...but the A720 is newer, seems to have more features, and isn't much more expensive. I'm willing to pay the extra $50 or so if it is a better camera...but if the A570 is better than that's $50 towards some other scuba stuff.

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!

I would also love to see any pics taken with the 720, since it's so new it seems that all the threads on it are about people researching/buying it. I haven't seen any pictures from it yet.

Even though this is a super long post, at least you all can tell that I did use the "search" feature

 

[hlfritz]

well, i have done a lot of research and called a couple of places and asked some questions. i settled on the a720 is because it seems to a real good point and shoot camera and has accessories for underwater...the canon and ikelite housings. i only dive a couple of times ayear on vacation, so do not yet want to dump major $ into this, so today i ordered the canon housing, the camera, and the sealife sl961 lighting set. a bit more overall than i wanted to spend, but i do not want junk either - hopefully none of this turns out to be that.

the folks i talked to said if you are going to deeper than 15 to 20 feet - you definitely need a flash. is the built in one o.k.? i have my doubts hence the reason i bought the strobe. we will be going to Cozumel on the 5th, so i will be testing both ways...

this is just what i did based upon research. by no means am i an expert, but hopefully it helps...

 

[DivingPrincessE]

Thanks, I was pretty much told the same thing about the strobe when I asked my LDS a couple of hours ago. I appreciate the help!!

 

[Bubbletrubble]

DivingPrincessE,

I've been using a Canon Powershot S500 with WP-DC800 underwater housing for the past couple of years. I love it! Canon makes great products. I don't currently own an external strobe, but I am researching my options for one. I would describe myself as an intermediate-level diver and an amateur underwater photographer (emphasis on the "amateur" part).

You probably don't need to get the "accessory kit" with your camera, but for $40 extra it seems like a pretty good deal. I would opt to buy better quality stuff on my own, though. The underwater housing itself comes with a small tube of the proper silicone grease to last you quite awhile. Cheaper silica packets can be purchased online to address lens-fogging. You can DIY your own camera weight with lead shot to help make your camera setup buoyantly neutral. (If you don't do this, the camera will float up by your head, under your arm, or wrap itself around a hose or two.) Better rechargeable batteries can be found at Thomas Distributing. I recommend the Powerex batteries and any of the Maha battery rechargers.

With regard to getting a strobe, here's my advice...

You may want to consider just getting the Canon camera + underwater housing...for now. I think you'll be surprised with the results, especially with macro shots. Using the internal flash alone, macros are possible at any depth. The internal flash is worthless for anything farther away than a few feet. In tropical water with good viz, pictures taken at 35 fsw and shallower have pretty good color saturation. Using the underwater scene mode or manually adjusting the white balance will give very nice results.
If you want to see what very simple camera setups are capable of, I encourage you to check out a website that showcases recent photos taken by divers in the Southern California area (mainly San Diego). Every week divers send their pics to the "Divebums" moderator, and he posts them on the web. Next to each picture is listed the kind of camera equipment used to create the shot. Many contributors (like me) have simple setups with no external strobe. A recent compilation can be found at:
Divebums: Photos of the Week #140
(Self-promotion alert: My recent seahorse pic is there.)
As a newer diver, I can imagine that it could be very challenging to dial in your buoyancy _and_ figure out optimal settings for a strobe + underwater camera setup. I know that for me the task loading was pretty challenging at first...especially on night dives. If I had a strobe to worry about, I don't think I would have had as much fun with the camera.

Once you get your underwater camera setup, you'll realize that you'll need to improve certain dive skills and develop new ones. You'll learn how to fin backwards, hold an inverted position in the water column, and hover motionless inches from a piece of coral. It's a lot of fun and very challenging. I would recommend that you get a very patient and attentive buddy...and work as a team to get pics. You'll end up moving slower yet "seeing" more.

If you do decide to get a strobe, I have seen people get wonderful results with Inon and Sea & Sea strobes. I would stay away from the low-end SeaLife strobes -- people complain that they are unreliable at best. From my research, you can expect to pay about $400 for a decent strobe.

Hope this helps...

 

[hlfritz]

well, i finally had some time to upload my raw pics from my trip with the canon a720is and the sl961 strobe. note these are raw pics and definitely show off how much i have to learn. i am thinking some of them could turn out really good if cropped the right way...

so here goes, these two sets are with the strobe:

Dive 2 raw pics

Night Dive raw pics

and this set was just the flash on the camera with the diffuser that comes with the canon housing (i wanted to do a comparison):

Dives 4 and 5 raw pics

you can judge for yourself if the strobe made a difference. it is definitely more powerful that i thought it would be - i had to dial it down a LOT to not wash out the pics i was taking (you can see that in some). i think (hindsight is 20/20!) that i can back off from the subject more and use the optical zoom on the camera instead of getting in so close...

any feedback and/or tips is welcome.

 

[diver 85]

well, i have done a lot of research and called a couple of places and asked some questions. i settled on the a720 is because it seems to a real good point and shoot camera and has accessories for underwater...the canon and ikelite housings. i only dive a couple of times ayear on vacation, so do not yet want to dump major $ into this, so today i ordered the canon housing, the camera, and the sealife sl961 lighting set. a bit more overall than i wanted to spend, but i do not want junk either - hopefully none of this turns out to be that.

the folks i talked to said if you are going to deeper than 15 to 20 feet - you definitely need a flash. is the built in one o.k.? i have my doubts hence the reason i bought the strobe. we will be going to Cozumel on the 5th, so i will be testing both ways...

this is just what i did based upon research. by no means am i an expert, but hopefully it helps...

click the 2 links in my sig to see a bunch of pics with only the flash of the camera(& some were without any flash ie ambient lite---the squid ones are like that & a few turtle ones were with ambient lite)........

 

[scottg541]

well, i finally had some time to upload my raw pics from my trip with the canon a720is and the sl961 strobe. note these are raw pics and definitely show off how much i have to learn. i am thinking some of them could turn out really good if cropped the right way...

so here goes, these two sets are with the strobe:

Dive 2 raw pics

Night Dive raw pics

and this set was just the flash on the camera with the diffuser that comes with the canon housing (i wanted to do a comparison):

Dives 4 and 5 raw pics

you can judge for yourself if the strobe made a difference. it is definitely more powerful that i thought it would be - i had to dial it down a LOT to not wash out the pics i was taking (you can see that in some). i think (hindsight is 20/20!) that i can back off from the subject more and use the optical zoom on the camera instead of getting in so close...

any feedback and/or tips is welcome.

Hlfritz,

The difference in those shots is that the flash was always in sync when not using the strobe and when using the strobe, it was only in sync for a few... e.g. you were basically shooting without the strobe the whole time.

There is no light other than available in many of the strobe pictures... have a look at how to get them in sync- you may have a pre-flash setting needed in the camera or on the strobe.

As far as RAW vs. Jpeg- RAW means the camera is not processing the photo- it's up to you. Work on getting focus and exposures correct and processing a RAW photo is very valuble-

RAW is not really worth the hassle of post process until you have a handle on what the camera is doing (put it in manual, set the white balance, manipulate the flash, etc.)

Good subjects and nice framing on many of the shots,

Scott

 

[scottg541]

see how the light is all on top of this coral.... that tells you that the main light source is coming from above (sky)... not your strobe--- this is the sync problem.

Scott

 

[hlfritz]

got it on the synch... i had it worked out, i wonder if it is that the synch cable just did not 'hold up' and synch properly??? why would it work on some and not others... i did all the testing and the flash did fire most of the time (i thought all the time).

this strobe is also supposed to have a auto detect to not overexpose, but that did not seem to work at all. it seemed so strong - see the washed out pics - that i had to dial it down to 2-3 (out of 9 or 10 i believe). anyone have experience there?

maybe that is why some pics are really dark. had the flash dialed down and they were farther away...

by raw, i meant untouched. i know raw is a format as well...should not have used that term. i have no intention of using raw for now... when i have time i will retouch and reframe some of the pics and post in my main trip gallery.

thx for the compliment! my buddy did some (he has a G9 w/canon housing only) that came out really well. the one you highlighted above i think looks really good (yes, some parts are really dark but the sponge is lit in a soft, glowing manner from above). maybe i am not that great of a picture appreciator! i d appreciate the tips on figuring out what is going on though. too bad i do not get to dive often enough to get it to a near instinctive level of skill.

thx much for the feedback.

 

[scottg541]

Yeah, i usually have my strobe dialed down, at higher powers it definitely washes everything out for me.

Judging by your photo's, I'm fairly sure that your strobe is not firing consistently...

By "sync cable" do you mean the fiber optic style? Without a TTL cable directly from your camera body to your strobe they will not communicate... not sure what kind of set up you have, but it is not common on reasonably priced equipment.

Work to ensure that the "pre flash" settings on your strobe and camera are in coordination... very easy to test out at home, set for a decent UW - say 5.6 aperture, 1/125 shutter speed, and a normal ISO... then dial in the flash.

Good luck, happy shooting,
Scott