A300CS OLED Dive Computer
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kafkaland
Contributor
Dr. Lecter
Contributor
Let me get this straight:
Cheap-looking build quality with chrome-wiper blade style bezel...
Somewhat uncommon battery...
Contains certain audible alarms that cannot be disabled (see manual p. 9)...
Will lock to Gauge mode for 24 hours under certain conditions, which include merely incurring a deco obligation with stops deeper than 60' (see manual p.28)...
Locks you into a specific algorithm for 24 hours post-dive (see manual p. 23)...
Bizarre algorithm that stops giving you decompression credit above a stop (when you're offgassing faster; see manual p. 28)...
and for all these wonderful limitations, you have to spend $100 more than a Petrel, not counting transmitter, and get something other than Shearwater service/support?
Oooookkkay.
Cheap-looking build quality with chrome-wiper blade style bezel...
Somewhat uncommon battery...
Contains certain audible alarms that cannot be disabled (see manual p. 9)...
Will lock to Gauge mode for 24 hours under certain conditions, which include merely incurring a deco obligation with stops deeper than 60' (see manual p.28)...
Locks you into a specific algorithm for 24 hours post-dive (see manual p. 23)...
Bizarre algorithm that stops giving you decompression credit above a stop (when you're offgassing faster; see manual p. 28)...
and for all these wonderful limitations, you have to spend $100 more than a Petrel, not counting transmitter, and get something other than Shearwater service/support?
Oooookkkay.
jd950
Contributor
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Lecter:
I don't have this computer and am not planning on buying one, at least not at the present, but I am not sure where you get the "cheap build quality" assessment from. I have not seen anything about that.
I also do not like the styling, but Have no issue with a CR2 battery.
None of the other issues you raise bother me for a recreational computer that is not being marketed to the "tech" crowd. While I would prefer more flexibility in some of those things I can understand why the Mfr. feels the need to protect some people from themselves, and I don't find the limitations too intrusive in this instance.
The Petrel is an excellent dive computer, and Shearwater seems to offer great customer service but many people want air integration and believe that feature to be valuable even though I know you scoff at the concept. Many people would choose the A300 because it is air integrated.
Despite the high quality of the Petrel, if a recreational diver wants a non-AI computer there are many available that are more than adequate for far less than the cost of a Petrel, so for the market that the A300 is aimed at, the Petrel is a premium-priced computer that offers many features of limited value to that market.
I think it is bad form to come on to a Mfr forum and insult their product and tout a competing product when you are here only for that purpose. I say that because I know you have not purchased and have no intention of purchasing an Aeris computer, but instead monitor the computer forums looking for opportunities to try and promote Shearwater. Your love for that product is fine, but coming here to promote it is tacky.
I don't have this computer and am not planning on buying one, at least not at the present, but I am not sure where you get the "cheap build quality" assessment from. I have not seen anything about that.
I also do not like the styling, but Have no issue with a CR2 battery.
None of the other issues you raise bother me for a recreational computer that is not being marketed to the "tech" crowd. While I would prefer more flexibility in some of those things I can understand why the Mfr. feels the need to protect some people from themselves, and I don't find the limitations too intrusive in this instance.
The Petrel is an excellent dive computer, and Shearwater seems to offer great customer service but many people want air integration and believe that feature to be valuable even though I know you scoff at the concept. Many people would choose the A300 because it is air integrated.
Despite the high quality of the Petrel, if a recreational diver wants a non-AI computer there are many available that are more than adequate for far less than the cost of a Petrel, so for the market that the A300 is aimed at, the Petrel is a premium-priced computer that offers many features of limited value to that market.
I think it is bad form to come on to a Mfr forum and insult their product and tout a competing product when you are here only for that purpose. I say that because I know you have not purchased and have no intention of purchasing an Aeris computer, but instead monitor the computer forums looking for opportunities to try and promote Shearwater. Your love for that product is fine, but coming here to promote it is tacky.
I purchased the A300 CS two months ago. There was nothing about the computer, or any of the accessories, that appeared poorly made. In fact it has a nice solid feel to it. The "chome" I believe is polished stainless steel. The transmitter was nice and compact. Much smaller than competitor units. As for Aeris customer service, it has been top-notch. I did have an issue with my first unit, which they replaced quickly and provided pre-paid UPS tags. Doug and his staff at Aeris were professional and courteous throughout the process.
Unfortunately, I ended up taking the unit back to my LDS. Unable to view the screen topside or on surface swims, the Tx/Rx link would drop out routinely, and the Bluetooth function just didn't seem to work. Rather than wrestle with it, I'm back to my Atmos.
Unfortunately, I ended up taking the unit back to my LDS. Unable to view the screen topside or on surface swims, the Tx/Rx link would drop out routinely, and the Bluetooth function just didn't seem to work. Rather than wrestle with it, I'm back to my Atmos.
Dr. Lecter
Contributor
It's Aeris's forum - if they're unhappy with the comparisons I've made but don't have anything to say in response, they can have the post deleted. To be clear, I don't care what prospective shoppers buy; Shearwater doesn't need any marketing help from me. One could easily substitute HW, Liquivision, or several others for SW.
The point is, this is a premium-priced computer with a lot of built-in limitations that are buried in the manual rather than made clear up front. I consider that pretty pathetic business practice; if you consider expressing that opinion here tacky, I couldn't care less.
Doug Krause
Contributor
Dr -
I owe an awful lot of people a response in this busy thread, but have been unable to dig in with dealer meetings and price lists and catalog deadlines pressing down on me. We're continuing to monitor the posts and have just released a firmware update as a direct result of customers right here. I composed a response in my head upon reading your post - and was happy to see JD jump on and express many of my own thoughts. I made a commitment when I started the first manufacturer forum to never delete a post and I won't do so now. You're welcome to your opinion - and I appreciate the great deal of interest you've shown in the product. You're more than welcome to post here any time - I'd be happy to answer any questions or concerns you may have... not that I think you have that purpose in mind, but gives me an opportunity to address questions that others may have. My responses follow below.
Cheap-looking build quality with chrome-wiper blade style bezel... You're entitled to your opinion, but I assure you that after 45 years in the business designing and manufacturing these in our facility, build quality is something we've figured out. To confirm, the bezel is polished stainless, not chromed anything.
Somewhat uncommon battery... Have to disagree - We've used this CR2 in several products going back many years; I've never had a problem finding them. No doubt less common than AA batts, but very common in photographic equipment.
Contains certain audible alarms that cannot be disabled (see manual p. 9)... If you blow off a decompression stop and don't find you're way back under the ceiling within 5 minutes, the computer will violate and emit a short single beep letting you know it's done so. The additional alarm that cannot be disabled is an ascent rate violation. I'd agree that in this case - if the user wants to deactivate alarms, this ought to be on the list. Ill suggest that we revisit this for a future firmware update. All of the other alarms listed may be deactivated simply by not setting them.
Will lock to Gauge mode for 24 hours under certain conditions, which include merely incurring a deco obligation with stops deeper than 60' (see manual p.28)... Violation/Gauge mode comes up from time to time - it's generally frowned upon until one understands that in order for the computer to enter this mode, you have done something well beyond the computer's ability to make calculations for continued diving. Exceeding the maximum operating depth, ignoring a decompression requirement - or yes, exceeding a 60 foot ceiling. The unit will handle deco stops at 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, and 60 feet - if you require stops beyond that level or dives below 330 ft - you're right, there are other products out there that are more appropriate for your diving.
Locks you into a specific algorithm for 24 hours post-dive (see manual p. 23)... There's a continuation of that sentence "24 hours... or all residual nitrogen has offgassed (tissue desaturation time decreases to 0:00)". Dual Algorithm offers the user to choose between two completely different calculations - it cannot be swapped back and forth.
Bizarre algorithm that stops giving you decompression credit above a stop (when you're offgassing faster; see manual p. 28)... "Above a stop" in this case is disregarding a deeper stop and moving onto the next shallower. If you have a 20 ft ceiling, you're not going to incur penalties if you do that stop at 19 ft. If you proceed to your 10 ft stop while you've got a 20 ft obligation, it's a different story.
and for all these wonderful limitations, you have to spend $100 more than a Petrel, not counting transmitter, and get something other than Shearwater service/support? We've got an awful lot to offer that you didn't take the time to point out. I'll let our customers speak to our level of support.
I owe an awful lot of people a response in this busy thread, but have been unable to dig in with dealer meetings and price lists and catalog deadlines pressing down on me. We're continuing to monitor the posts and have just released a firmware update as a direct result of customers right here. I composed a response in my head upon reading your post - and was happy to see JD jump on and express many of my own thoughts. I made a commitment when I started the first manufacturer forum to never delete a post and I won't do so now. You're welcome to your opinion - and I appreciate the great deal of interest you've shown in the product. You're more than welcome to post here any time - I'd be happy to answer any questions or concerns you may have... not that I think you have that purpose in mind, but gives me an opportunity to address questions that others may have. My responses follow below.
Cheap-looking build quality with chrome-wiper blade style bezel... You're entitled to your opinion, but I assure you that after 45 years in the business designing and manufacturing these in our facility, build quality is something we've figured out. To confirm, the bezel is polished stainless, not chromed anything.
Somewhat uncommon battery... Have to disagree - We've used this CR2 in several products going back many years; I've never had a problem finding them. No doubt less common than AA batts, but very common in photographic equipment.
Contains certain audible alarms that cannot be disabled (see manual p. 9)... If you blow off a decompression stop and don't find you're way back under the ceiling within 5 minutes, the computer will violate and emit a short single beep letting you know it's done so. The additional alarm that cannot be disabled is an ascent rate violation. I'd agree that in this case - if the user wants to deactivate alarms, this ought to be on the list. Ill suggest that we revisit this for a future firmware update. All of the other alarms listed may be deactivated simply by not setting them.
Will lock to Gauge mode for 24 hours under certain conditions, which include merely incurring a deco obligation with stops deeper than 60' (see manual p.28)... Violation/Gauge mode comes up from time to time - it's generally frowned upon until one understands that in order for the computer to enter this mode, you have done something well beyond the computer's ability to make calculations for continued diving. Exceeding the maximum operating depth, ignoring a decompression requirement - or yes, exceeding a 60 foot ceiling. The unit will handle deco stops at 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, and 60 feet - if you require stops beyond that level or dives below 330 ft - you're right, there are other products out there that are more appropriate for your diving.
Locks you into a specific algorithm for 24 hours post-dive (see manual p. 23)... There's a continuation of that sentence "24 hours... or all residual nitrogen has offgassed (tissue desaturation time decreases to 0:00)". Dual Algorithm offers the user to choose between two completely different calculations - it cannot be swapped back and forth.
Bizarre algorithm that stops giving you decompression credit above a stop (when you're offgassing faster; see manual p. 28)... "Above a stop" in this case is disregarding a deeper stop and moving onto the next shallower. If you have a 20 ft ceiling, you're not going to incur penalties if you do that stop at 19 ft. If you proceed to your 10 ft stop while you've got a 20 ft obligation, it's a different story.
and for all these wonderful limitations, you have to spend $100 more than a Petrel, not counting transmitter, and get something other than Shearwater service/support? We've got an awful lot to offer that you didn't take the time to point out. I'll let our customers speak to our level of support.
jd950
Contributor
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- # of dives
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No doubt.
Phantomrider09
Contributor
Doug you have been great with me and my local dive shop (Professional Divers) my computer works great and I dive 4-6 dives per week as well as teach on other days. I have had the computer on numerous dives to 130ft as well as much shallower. The Guage mode is used for my deco dives and normal for the shallower stuff. I'm sad to see A eris going away as all my hear is Hollis and Aeris. My only problem is.......waiting impatiently for the bungee mount. I have to double band it in my drysuit and it's a pain. Any word on that yet???
Dr. Lecter
Contributor
That was a very fair response I can respect, even if I don't agree with everything in it, and so I'll ask a follow-up. Why are either the 330' limit or the deco calculations past 60' stops beyond its ability to make the necessary calculations? I assume the depth sensor selected plays a role in determining the 330' limit, but is there a reason not to use the same sensors that allow other computers to handle depths well below 330'?
The bulk of my curiosity lies on the software side of things, though: why the inability to calculate deco beyond a stop depth of 60'? It can't be a processing power issue, given current technology, and I'm not aware of any popular deco models (aside from ratio deco) that are understood to break down as deco obligations grow. Nor is a 70' stop all that hard to achieve…a relatively brief exposure of 30 minutes at 130' will probably do it, depending on model, gas(es), and conservatism.
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