A whole bunch of noob Questions

[o2scuba]

Hi all,

Is it possible we are talking about the "PADI SCUBA Diver" program here, and not the full "open Water" course?

This program involves only 2 OW dives and less classroom/pool time. The difference is that these divers are certified to dive under supervision of a dive pro only.

Cafka,
Any stress you might be feeling is natural. Once you take those first few breaths through the regulator, you'll see just how easy it is. The program is progressive, no worries, it's a slow step by step process. At least it is designed to be.

Some of your statements raise some questions. That you could be expected to perform skills that are dangerous and ouside the requirements of PADI (or any recreational dive agency, far as I know).Perhaps it's just a case of misunderstanding?

There is a skill called, CESA= Controlled Emergency Swimming Ascent. This skill must be taught and practiced in the pool. In the Open Water you will be required to do a swimming ascent to the surface (from about 25-30ft), while exhaling continuously (with your regulator in your mouth) and releasing short puffs of air from your bcd. You will be looking up all around you and holding your right hand up in case of any obstructions. Since your reg is IN, you have the option of sneaking a breath. Your instructor will be (better be), in direct contact with you. He/she will stop the skill if you: go too fast, too slow or have to sneak that breath. Your instructor will explain this in more detail (hopefully) and practice it with you.

As far as the swim requirements, if this is a PADI program, you have to be able to swim 200 yards (8 laps in a full pool), and tread water (float) for 10 minutes. No more, no less. No wetsuit or extra floatation aids are allowed. These are reasonable tasks for even the average swimmer. It's really not that hard, try not to overwhelm yourself. If you have time, practice in your local; pool.

In the mean time, the best thing to do is STUDY the book thoroughly. Answer all the questions in the knowledge reviews, watch the video.

Best of luck,

Andrew

 

[SOUTH DEVON]

o2scuba once bubbled...
Hi all,


As far as the swim requirements, if this is a PADI program, you have to be able to swim 200 yards (8 laps in a full pool), and tread water (float) for 10 minutes. No more, no less. No wetsuit or extra floatation aids are allowed.
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I was allowed to wear my wetsuit in the swimming pool for my padi open water swim test !

 

[o2scuba]

SOUTH DEVON once bubbled...

I was allowed to wear my wetsuit in the swimming pool for my padi open water swim test ! [/B]

This is a direct violation of PADI standards. You mentioned a couple of other skills that were left out of your class as well. (LPI disconnect, propper ascents, outdated classroom materials etc..).

There are probably many other things that your instructor missed as well.

Unfortunately it is YOU who has lost in this situation. You paid your instructor, right? You paid for a certification course, right? By leaving out certain skills and requirements, your instructor has left you in a dangerous situation. Not to mention that you did not get what you paid for.

I suggested previously that you let PADI know about this. This is a very serious situation. You mentioned that your instructor was a "nice bloke". Sounds like you do not want to get him in trouble. I understand your dilema. However consider that if these practices continue, and someone is injured or killed, he will certainly be in BIG trouble.

You would be doing him a favor by reporting this.

If you paid for a couch, and a foling wooden chair was delivered, would you not demand satisfaction?

 

[Cafka]

I'm pretty sure it's the PADI program. On the books("Go Dive") the PADI logo is there. And my LDS says it has a 5 star training facility. The course is Fri. 6-9(Orientation) Sat. 9-5 Sun. 9-5
It could be 2 boat trips with 2 open water dives per trip.

I guess I'm excited more than anything else and I don't know what to expect. It's going to be a task when it comes to buying all my gear, with all the little features on everything and knowing what everything is for and what i need.

 

[SOUTH DEVON]

o2scuba once bubbled...



This is a direct violation of PADI standards. You mentioned a couple of other skills that were left out of your class as well. (LPI disconnect, propper ascents, outdated classroom materials etc..).

There are probably many other things that your instructor missed as well.

Unfortunately it is YOU who has lost in this situation. You paid your instructor, right? You paid for a certification course, right? By leaving out certain skills and requirements, your instructor has left you in a dangerous situation. Not to mention that you did not get what you paid for.

I suggested previously that you let PADI know about this. This is a very serious situation. You mentioned that your instructor was a "nice bloke". Sounds like you do not want to get him in trouble. I understand your dilema. However consider that if these practices continue, and someone is injured or killed, he will certainly be in BIG trouble.

You would be doing him a favor by reporting this.

If you paid for a couch, and a foling wooden chair was delivered, would you not demand satisfaction?

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Yes I agree with you in a way, but there again I do think some of it is over the top , I mean there is no way I'm going to ever be diving in the UK without a wetsuit , and I really can't think of a situation, where I need to tread water without any equipment on for 10 minutes whilst diving or float for 10 minutes, or swim 200 m without any diving equipment on!
As it happens I'm a very competent and strong swimmer so it doesn't really affect me, but I do think the sport should be available to disabled people, I bumped into one guy on the open water course who only had one arm , and he managed to dive perfectly well, yet how can he be expected to tread water or float for 10 minutes without any equipment on !!!!!!!!!!
I use to have a disability myself, but thankfully it was short lived, and one of the options available to me was diving, but I couldn't have done these things either then !!!!
I really think some of these swimming tests are over the top and unnecessary especially where disabled people are concerned !!
Perhaps people should be able to sign a disclaimer in these situations and still become qualified, as I really think disabled people can dive relatively safely, and as I'm very familiar with the stigma of being disabled and trying to find a sport that you can actually do is very far and between !!!!!!!
With respect/Steve

 

[USMC Diver]

cafka,

You will be fine. Go to the class with the gear you have. Enjoy yourself. You won't fail the class unless you can't perform a skill, which is fairly rare.

I NEVER buy any equipment from any LDS. I go and try it out at the LDS then I buy the stuff I want online. Most of the time you can get a warranty with the online store. IMO, almost all of the LDS equipment is about twice the amount you can get it for online.

Remember, the majority of LDS income comes from the new diver and the equipment an certs they can sell him. Like doing the OW and then giving you a "free" Nav dive or Search and Recovery dive. Sounds like free training when in all atuallity it is a link to getting you to sign up immediatly for an AOW class.

Just like section 5 in the PADI OW dive manual suggest $$$$ Sign up for a PADI Specialty, Buy some gear, or plan a trip $$$$ beacause it will make you more interested in diving. YEAH RIGHT.

Learn to dive, then evaluate the TRUE motives behind your LDS. They like to act as if they really care about your diving experience when I think they really want your diving money.

 

[Cafka]

Here is an excerpt from my "Go Dive" book:

Performance Based Learning and a Philosophy of Access

Learning to dive means meeting specific performance requirements necessary for enjoyable and safe diving. Your instructor, this manual and the Open Water Diver Video suggest methods for meeting those performance requirements, but they're not the only methods.

People differ in their talents and strengths, limits and weaknesses, and PADI courses flex to accommodate these differences, including those caused by physical and intellectual challenges. This makes diving accessible to the widest range of people without compromising the requirements necessary to dive safely.

For example, while most divers might enter the water by stepping in, an individual with limited leg use may not have that option. But there are many ways to enter the water that meet the performance requirements; such an individual might enter the water by rolling in backward.

So if a suggested technique for meeting a performance requirement doesn't work because of your personal situation, ask your instructor to help you attain your goal to become a diver by adapting or developing techniques that meet the requirements some other way. You need to meet the performance requirements to receive a PADI certification, but there are many ways besides those listed in this manual.

 

[ColdH2Odvr]

Can you learn to dive in a weekend? I don’t think so. Can you learn to dive in a full length class? I kind of doubt that too but you’ll probably get closer. Taken separately, the basic concepts of diving are indeed basic. Try to stuff them into your head over the course of a weekend how much do you really retain? Honestly? (Of course we know everyone did their homework…)

IMHO the best you can hope for from your OW class is a theoretical foundation to build upon, a solid skill set to keep your butt alive while you learn to dive, and the knowledge that you still have a lot to learn. I look at the OW cert as basically a learner’s permit. And no, I’m not trying to sell “advanced” open water classes (what an unfortunate use of the word advanced… but that’s another thread)

So, if you don’t learn to dive in you OW class, where do you learn to dive? In the water of course… The trick is to learn enough in your OW class to learn outside of class. I know way too many people who get their OW cert only to stop diving because they’re so lacking in fundamental skills that they aren’t comfortable enough to go diving without their instructor by their side.

Take the AOW if you get a chance but more importantly, listen to and learn from those around you. This forum, for example is an excellent place to build upon your theoretical base, as well as discus proper execution of skills and emergencies. If you see someone who looks comfortable/competent in the water, imitate them. If you watch divers with a little experience and notice that your arms are flailing and theirs aren’t, stop flailing your arms. When you hit the surface, ask them why they dive like that. Before you look at your depth gauge, guess you depth. Before you look at your pressure gauge, guess how much you have left. If you’re wrong, try to figure out why. Practice, practice, practice.

Will you learn to dive in a weekend? no. But, if you work at it, you may just learn to dive in the next year or so.

Good luck, the more you learn about diving the better you’ll like it.

Dave

 

[ColdH2Odvr]

JohnF once bubbled...

We only went to 25-30' and were not allowed to touch our inflators. The babysitters did the buoyancy adjustments for us. It was pretty frustrating and kind of demeaning, but the fact is, most of the divers didn't know enough to understand the inflator use etc. On the other hand I haven't heard of any folks dying on a resort course.

Ok, that’s just plane scary.

I had the pleasure (?) of shadowing a friend of mine who was DM for a couple she suspected of needing a little extra supervision. It was amazing, one girl was fairly competent but the other just skipped along the bottom. If we came to a ledge, she’d just drop down to the next shelf and plow on. Some of our ledges come with a nice 500 – 700’ wall attached, not the time to start learning buoyancy. I’d always wondered how people managed to get certified and not know how to get neutral; this sheds a little light on things.

A little info on the importance of neutrality:

Decompression Incidents ]http://www.bsac.org/techserv/increp02/overview02.htm
The BSAC database contains 144 reports of DCI incidents in the 2002 incident year, some of which involved more than one casualty. When these multiple cases are counted the result is 168 cases of DCI.
In 2001 116 cases of DCI were recorded, 134 in 2000 and 86 in 1999. An analysis of the causal factors

As reported many times before, poor buoyancy control is at the heart of the majority of these cases. Divers are failing to correctly control their ascent, especially in the critical last 10m zone and ending up with rapid ascents and/or missed decompression stops. Very often the diver is using a drysuit and is unable to prevent a buoyant ascent.

Dave

 

[JohnF]

ColdH2Odvr once bubbled...

Ok, that’s just plane scary.

Dave

It was only a resort course. You know, the one when you spend a couple of hours in the resort pool and then get to do a dive with babysitting. I was pretty comfortable in the water and in the gear but I spent much of the time on each of those dives worrying about the other people, the few who looked scared stiff, and were pretty hopeless in the water.

My wife and I managed to stay off the bottom though I swam pretty close to it to look at stuff. At the time I didn't realize what a vapour trail I was laying down behind me with my kicking style.

Don't misunderstand me. The more I learn the more I respect the dangers, but all in all, diving to 25' in warm clear still water with a professional guide practically holding my hand ain't exactly a deathdefying act. Diving is supposed to be fun and I had a lot of fun in Mexico those first few times.

BTW. I still swim close to the bottom snooping around but I don't stir up a mess any more. I learned something from my cavern training. 8)

John F.