A Warning for Anyone Contemplating A Chinese Supplied Scuba Compressor

[Peter69_56]

$600 to clean 8 tanks! Sounds like you're getting reamed by your compatriots too!

Well $30 for the tank clean x8 and $35 for the (valve clean x 6) plus 4 tanks rumbled to clean rust $??? $90 for one manifold clean

I am guessing about $600 +

Whats the going rate normally

 

[Wookie]

Well $40 for the tank clean and $40 for the valve clean x 8

Whats the going rate normally

I don't think you got hosed on the tank cleaning.

 

[Peter69_56]

Further to my original post;

Sent in a complaint to Alibaba so see where that goes.

Will contact Coltri and see if they are interested in following up

While getting quotes for a Bauer compressor, one guy in Tasmania said he also has an "Supplied Out of China" compressor sitting in his back yard gathering dust. So the story goes, there are a lot of them in the market now and he is always being contacted to help with problems. In his words, he said they appear unreliable, hard to source parts for (if you can at all).

Also mine didn't come with a constant pressure regulator (I suspect many of the cheap ones don't), thus the final filter doesn't operate efficiently anyway and its harder on the compressor crank when not at the ideal pressure (perhaps part of the cause of unreliability). To overcome this with mine I used to throttle on the discharge valve maintaining a minimum of 100 BAR compressor discharge pressure (not that it did any good given the air just bypassed the filter medium).

 

[bubbly noob]

I've always wondered why the Chinese steel wasn't up to par by now, is it a problem with the raw materials or the manufacturing process?

It's both.
The fact that the owner will cut every single corners to save money in the purpose to make more.
The fact that a technician somewhere on the factory line will change the weight or amount or thickness or the material itself to collect "the extra" and resale it on his own.
The fact that in some industries employees work 6 to 7 days a week, 10hrs.
The fact that get paid the lowest possible wage, no over time pay.
The fact that they have to live in factories dormitories, no matter age, no matter marital status. All electricity shut off 10pm.
The fact that they have to pay their team leader or department manager to keep their job.
The fact that they are owned up to 3 month back wages.
The fact that they have 10 days off/year
...
So they can careless about Quality, Standards, etc... For them , it's all about surviving!

 

[Peter69_56]

Spoke to the Australian distributer today regarding Chinese copies of the Italian Coltri compressor. He said Coltri have been made aware of it. I have also emailed them with information and the offer of help.

 

[ktomlinson]

Well $30 for the tank clean x8 and $35 for the (valve clean x 6) plus 4 tanks rumbled to clean rust $??? $90 for one manifold clean

I am guessing about $600 +

Whats the going rate normally

Sorry, I didn't think about the valves, but they definitely need cleaning too. I had only considered the local price of a tumble/rinse/vip ($35). With the valves the price was fair.

 

[iain/hsm]

SNIP I got a heap of prices but they are very expensive

Before you ordered this $3500 Chinese compressor I'm kind of curious what other brands did you look at and what prices were you quoted by comparison.

Its just that for your $4700 spent you could have got an oil free, oil-less Rix SA-3 on a stainless steel frame with filtration to BS12021 and still made change for the shipping.

Further more after using it for 8 fills I guess you would have got more for it secondhand than this Chinese pump yours is worth now.

Many times on this forum you will hear it said that secondhand value, current models and spares availability should alway be considered above old obsolete and obscure stock. Further before any purchase having a full printed spares price list for all spare parts prior to any purchase is a must.

I did take a look at this Alibaba advert and can see that regarding the size or flow, the Chinese quoted you as a low pressure compressor in that they quoted you the air displacement rather than delivery or charging rate. Its on the website clearly marked as displacement.

However if the actual measured charging rate as in your case is say half the displacement then that gives you an idea on just how sloppy these machined parts are. Your simply miss understood the informed given before you made your choice.

All of us in the compressor industry are aware of China and the chipping away at our designs and market. This forum could have been helpful in advising you of some of the pitfalls when going down the chinese route had you posted before you bought this unit but its a free world I guess we all have choices. Maybe an exercise in comparison brands would be useful, at least even to see which Italian compressor company copied who LOL Iain

 

[Peter69_56]

Before you ordered this $3500 Chinese compressor I'm kind of curious what other brands did you look at and what prices were you quoted by comparison.

Its just that for your $4700 spent you could have got an oil free, oil-less Rix SA-3 on a stainless steel frame with filtration to BS12021 and still made change for the shipping.

Further more after using it for 8 fills I guess you would have got more for it secondhand than this Chinese pump yours is worth now.

Many times on this forum you will hear it said that secondhand value, current models and spares availability should alway be considered above old obsolete and obscure stock. Further before any purchase having a full printed spares price list for all spare parts prior to any purchase is a must.

I did take a look at this Alibaba advert and can see that regarding the size or flow, the Chinese quoted you as a low pressure compressor in that they quoted you the air displacement rather than delivery or charging rate. Its on the website clearly marked as displacement.

However if the actual measured charging rate as in your case is say half the displacement then that gives you an idea on just how sloppy these machined parts are. Your simply miss understood the informed given before you made your choice.

All of us in the compressor industry are aware of China and the chipping away at our designs and market. This forum could have been helpful in advising you of some of the pitfalls when going down the chinese route had you posted before you bought this unit but its a free world I guess we all have choices. Maybe an exercise in comparison brands would be useful, at least even to see which Italian compressor company copied who LOL Iain

The only other one I found was Bauer which I would have loved to buy, but all the quotes were some $6500 or there abouts. The original china quote was $2000 USD. Assume $1000 shipping and costs. Its a much cheaper price (except its rubbish). I struggled to find a scuba compressor on the internet. I would have bought a reconditioned one but ;

a) Couldn't find any
b) Didn't know where to look

Having 20/20 hindsight I would have done things differently, but here I am.

It says in my information High Pressure compressor to 30MPA, 100l/m delivery rate. There is nothing on the original quote that would lead me to think its a low pressure low flow compressor. They quote an air standard of;

GSX100 mini high pressure air compressor is new portable high pressure breathing air supply machine. It compresses free air to pressure 20/30Mpa, and the oil and contaminants in the compressedair are removed by filters and oil-moisture separators in the duration of compression, so the outletair is pure and odourless. The outlet air accords to Chinese GB18435-2001 diving breathing air standard and EN12021 international breathing compressed air standard. It is safe and reliable breathing air supply machine.

All of which is not true except currently it will pump to 300BAR.

I think my quote; "You don't know what you don't know until you get there, and often then its far too late" applies here!
​

 

[iain/hsm]

Having 20/20 hindsight I would have done things differently, but here I am.

​

Sadly the one thing you say your compressor does do, is the one thing you should try and avoid.
That is pumping to 300 bar when at a lower 200-230 bar pressure it is working at a third lower stress in rod loading.

You also misunderstood me on the LP reference, the first advert I looked up on Alibaba clearly stated displacement 100 l/min (as opposed to charging rate) and is a typical point of reference used in the LP market.

The scuba market tend to quote charging rate or filling rate as I can see now many other adverts for the same pump that state this.

Although I believe you bought from a distributor or reseller the original manufacturing company that made this pump also makes a number of other copy clones. All the way up to 500 l/min 17 cfm including:

A three stage Bauer Junior clone similar in size to your 4 stage Coltri and as well as larger Coltri clones and also a larger L&W clone.

Years ago at the dive shows such as DEMA you would see the Chinese folk in what can only be described as "harvesting" the exhibition floor completely of value by photographing at every angle everything from pumps to swim wear wet suits and collecting any and all literature.

Now they have there own booths.

Most now also have "tame yanks" that work in the scuba industry who send them stuff over to them to make copy.
Problem is you can only copy a percentage of a product without full design detail and in compressors even if its around 90%
the remaining 10% is what you need with skill knowledge and experience to build the product with reliability.

Another "trick" that is pulled is in exhibitions they will also display genuine original parts on there stand display
while substituting the clone copy at the time of order.

Business is war it is said and for China specifically with in addition there hacking and military posturing for the most IMHO they find it hard to differentiate.

There is a response to this, two in fact one is as you are doing in letting others know the outcome, the other is not to touch them with a barge pole in the first place. Iain

 

[Peter69_56]

Sadly the one thing you say your compressor does do, is the one thing you should try and avoid.
That is pumping to 300 bar when at a lower 200-230 bar pressure it is working at a third lower stress in rod loading.

You also misunderstood me on the LP reference, the first advert I looked up on Alibaba clearly stated displacement 100 l/min (as opposed to charging rate) and is a typical point of reference used in the LP market.

The scuba market tend to quote charging rate or filling rate as I can see now many other adverts for the same pump that state this.

Although I believe you bought from a distributor or reseller the original manufacturing company that made this pump also makes a number of other copy clones. All the way up to 500 l/min 17 cfm including:

A three stage Bauer Junior clone similar in size to your 4 stage Coltri and as well as larger Coltri clones and also a larger L&W clone.

Years ago at the dive shows such as DEMA you would see the Chinese folk in what can only be described as "harvesting" the exhibition floor completely of value by photographing at every angle everything from pumps to swim wear wet suits and collecting any and all literature.

Now they have there own booths.

Most now also have "tame yanks" that work in the scuba industry who send them stuff over to them to make copy.
Problem is you can only copy a percentage of a product without full design detail and in compressors even if its around 90%
the remaining 10% is what you need with skill knowledge and experience to build the product with reliability.

Another "trick" that is pulled is in exhibitions they will also display genuine original parts on there stand display
while substituting the clone copy at the time of order.

Business is war it is said and for China specifically with in addition there hacking and military posturing for the most IMHO they find it hard to differentiate.

There is a response to this, two in fact one is as you are doing in letting others know the outcome, the other is not to touch them with a barge pole in the first place. Iain

Sadly all good in hindsight.

As I said before; "You don't know what you don't know until you get there, and often then its far too late"