A SAC question

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For the people I dive with in Sydney, I would say that 15 litres per minute RMV would be considered average. In Sydney using wetsuit I average about 11.5. Using a drysuit it is a bit more at about 12 or so. Diving deep in Sydney with more gear it is about 13.5. In the tropics, it is about 10.5.

I would consider anything over 15 to be higher than optimum.

The key to getting a good RMV is being relaxed, not over weighted (or under weighted for that matter), using the right suit for the occasion (you will use more when cold) and not having too much gear hanging off you.

Also, dfx, you do not seem to understand RMV or SAC. They are surface converted figures and it not matter the size of the tank used you should still end up with the same result, although using twins will normally mean you have a higher RMV as you have more drag.
 
This is so much fun
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I don’t know if this will help dfx, mala.

What I did is take the actual dive information in screen capture A, and in screen capture B, I simply changed it to a 100 cu ft cylinder instead of 80.

A

SAC 1.jpg

B

SAC 2.jpg

Hope it helps
 
This is so much fun
icosm14.gif


I don’t know if this will help dfx, mala.

What I did is take the actual dive information in screen capture A, and in screen capture B, I simply changed it to a 100 cu ft cylinder instead of 80.

Well, what that did is: it changed the volume-based SAC from 21.56 to 26.94 lt/min. Which is why the pressure-based SAC stayed the same at 4.4 bar/min. If you also adjust the other parameters so that the lt/min come out the same (for example, make the dive longer - you had more air, so you'd have stayed longer), then the bar/min will come out different.

Edit: actually those 4.4 bar/min aren't a SAC rate, it's the depth consumption rate. You have to adjust for average depth to get the SAC, roughly divide by 2 (10 m = 2 atm), which gives you 2.2 bar/min SAC rate.
 
I know that I consume a lot of air when I dive. It would be nice if I can compare my consumption with the average recreational diver so that I can monitor my progress. I know I’m doing better, but I feel that I can do more. By knowing the average; if there is one out there, I will then know if I reached an acceptable point.

My Calculated Surface Air Consumption (SAC) for my last 50 dives is 24.54.

Retain your SCR/RMV for now as reference: 24.54 litres/min

Use either 11L/bar tank (AL80) or 12L/bar (Steel HP100); dividing your SCR/RMV above by the metric tank rating of the respective tanks yields 2.2 bar/min and 2.0 bar/min pressure SCR (Surface Consumption Rate).

Use 10 minute intervals to estimate your nominal consumption rate, pre-dive planning and actual dive --your expected pressure SCR deltas for the each of the two tanks above will be 22 bar and 20 bar consumed in 10 minutes. Your depth multiplier is your metric depth easily coverted to ATA (divide-by-10 and add 1), and you use this factor to turn your SCR's above into DCR's (Depth Consumption Rates): example 20 meters equals 3 ATA, so your pressure SCR's turn into DCR's of 66 bar and 60 bar consumed in 10 minutes at 20 meters depth. (Note: as you go deeper than 20 meters on single tank, use a shorter time interval like 5 minutes in gauging your depth consumption rate.)

If during the dive at 20 meters you find your SPG indicates a higher delta reading than the above expected DCR's after the first 10 minute interval, then chances are you're working hard at depth (i.g. finning into a current), and so adjust/cut-short your bottom time accordingly. If it's significantly higher than 30% or you start over-breathing your reg at any time, then abort the dive.

The attachment below is the best & easiest instruction on the fundamentals of gas planning & management, utilizing SCR/RMV values and converting them to usable DCR pressure rates with a particular tank. It was also motivation for me to completely switch over to the more sensible Metric System for Scuba. . .:)
 

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  • BattlefieldCalculationsDeliaMilliron.pdf
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Not bad --I have a cold water reference Surface Consumption Rate (SCR) of 22 litres/min (roughly 0.75 cuft/min in US Imperial units). This is an acceptable reference point for now, because it just happens to make your gas consumption planning in Metric --both pre-dive and during the dive on-the-fly calculations-- that much easier & intuitive.

The common AL80 Tank holds 11 litres volume at the surface standard of 1 ATA (or 1.01 bar), for a metric rating of 11 litres/bar.

22 [-]litres[/-]/min divided-by 11 [-]litres[/-]/bar equals 2bar/min SCR (Surface Consumption Rate) in pressure units --a more useful quantity to utilize during the dive since your SPG reads in bar pressure units.

Your depth in meters, which converts easily to ATA (simply divide-by-10 and add 1) becomes your multiplier depth factor for your 2bar/min pressure SCR.

Example: 30m depth is 4 ATA; your 2bar/min SCR at depth -or Depth Consumption Rate (DCR)- now becomes 8bar/min. [4 times 2bar/min equals 8bar/min]. So 10 minutes at depth 30m on an AL80 (11L/bar) tank in nominal conditions, you would expect to consume 80bar of gas and your SPG reading to be down or show a delta of 80bar. . .

What if your SCR, or Depth Consumption Rate (DCR) is lower or better than the example above? --Just scale it as a percentage result:

My SCR/RMV in tropical warm waters is typically 30% better than it is in temperate cold SoCal homewaters. However, after a week drift diving in Palau 30deg C water temp, I've lowered that to around 50% of my nominal cold water SCR (from 22 litres/min to 11 litres/min).

This is how I used this value with a 11 litres/bar tank (i.e. an AL80) in Palau:
11 litres/min divided-by- 11 litres/bar equals 1 bar/min pressure SCR.

All my dives are averaging 20 meters depth going with the drift current; 20 meters is 3 ATA (divide 20 by 10 and add 1 gives a depth in atmospheres absolute of 3 ATA).

Therefore 1bar/min multiplied by 3 ATA equals a depth consumption rate of 3 bar/min at 20 meters. Checking my bottom timer every 10 minutes, I expect to consume 30 bar (3 bar/min multiplied by 10min equals 30 bar), and accordingly my SPG should read 30 bar less in that 10 minute time frame.

So by 30 minutes elapsed dive time at 20 meters, I expect to be down 90 bar or at half tank (AL80 full tank is 200 bar). At 40 minutes elapsed time, I'm ascending off the wall into the shallow coral plateau around 9 meters (down 120 bar from 200 bar total, or 80 bar remaining in tank). And finally at the 45 to 50 minute mark, I'm at 6m and my 3-5min safety stop with 60 to 70 bar left. I surface and I know even before looking at my SPG that I have around 50 bar remaining in my tank.

This is how you should actively use your SCR with your particular tank, knowing how much breathing gas you have left, not just only pre-planning, but also during the actual dive real-time-on-the-fly --all with easier to use metric units . . .additionally, you have a SPG that reads in units of pressure: why not convert your SCR to a Depth Consumption Rate (DCR) in pressure units to make use of it???

---------- Post added ----------

More tips & tricks with having a 22 litre/min SCR for reference:

Parameters:
Surface Consumption Rate (SCR): 22 litres/min*ATA
Twin 11 litre tanks (double AL80's): 22 litres/bar total tank rating.

Now divide SCR by total tank rating (22 divided by 22).

You get: 1 bar/min*ATA.
This is how you use the value 1 bar/min * ATA:

(Note: depth in ATA = depth in meters/10 + 1)

18m depth, same as 2.8 ATA -->translates directly to 2.8 bar/min
21m depth, same as 3.1 ATA -->translates directly to 3.1 bar/min
24m depth, same as 3.4 ATA -->translates directly to 3.4 bar/min
27m depth, same as 3.7 ATA -->translates directly to 3.7 bar/min
30m depth, same as 4.0 ATA -->translates directly to 4.0 bar/min

So for an arbitrary & convenient time period of 10 minutes, at each particular depth of the range of depths listed above, you would expect to consume:

2.8 bar/min*(10min) = 28 bar
3.1 bar/min*(10min) = 31 bar
3.4 bar/min*(10min) = 34 bar
3.7 bar/min*(10min) = 37 bar
4.0 bar/min*(10min) = 40 bar

Essentially then, all you need to know is your depth in ATA and your time at that depth, and you'll know instantly how much gas you've consumed in bar --even before looking at your SPG!

_________
A Quick Rock Bottom Calculation and Gas Plan Estimate for Open Water. . .

For double 11 litre tanks (double AL80's) for a total of 22 litres/bar metric tank rating and
a volume Surface Consumption Rate (SCR) of 22 litres/min -same as a pressure SCR of 1 bar/min*ATA- using an example NDL air dive to 30m (4 ATA) depth in Open Water.

Rock Bottom pressure calculation with one minute stops every 3 meters to the surface,
-->Just "tally the ATA's":
4.0
3.7
3.4
3.1
2.8
2.5
2.2
1.9
1.6
1.3

Sum Total: 26.5 --this also happens to be the pressure in bar needed for one person in an emergency contingency to reach the surface.

For two divers: 26.5 multiplied by 2 equals 53 bar Rock Bottom absolute reading remaining on your SPG.

For two experienced divers stressed: 53 bar plus 30% of 53 bar equals 69 bar Rock Bottom SPG reading.

For two novice divers stressed: 53 bar plus 100% of 53 bar equals 106 bar Rock Bottom SPG reading.

If only a single 11L tank instead of double 11L tanks was shared, then multiply the above again by two:

For two divers: 53 bar times 2 equals 106 bar;
For two experienced divers stressed: 69 times 2 equals 138 bar;
For two novice divers stressed: 106 bar times 2 equals 212 bar (!!!)
--->obviously then, two novice divers on single 11L tanks should not be diving to 30m for any significant length of time. . .
Freakin awesome that is why i read Kevs posts !!!!!!
 

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