A Question that Really Happened

[MikeFerrara]

To go a little farther .....Would you like to be the PSD that fills the body bags with untrained inexperienced divers?

First all those divers are packing c-cards. They are all TRAINED and they are ALL trained to keep their diving within their training and experience.

Still, that's a good question to ask the owners of "OW diver safe caverns", the agencies Who don't seem to disaprove of such nonsense and the divers themselves.

Most PSD teams stay out of caves, as far as I know. In Florida and other places where they have staff, the IUCRR usually takes care of the in-cave stuff. The IUCRR is the International Underwater Cave Rescue and Recovery. They are volunteer cave divers who are trained work with the municipality, go in, document the scene and bring em out.

 

[Cheekymonkey]

To go a little farther .....Would you like to be the PSD that fills the body bags with untrained inexperienced divers?

'

I wouldnt want to be the PSD that does, but on the other hand, I really don't care the outcome of those other divers as long as it didnt direclty affect me (liablility wise, not moraly). I'm not a cave diver, but my worry would be trying to come out and having a dead OW diver in my way wedged into one of those restrictions, not because i'm dead, but because there is a stiff body wedged into a tight place I need to go through.

 

[MikeFerrara]

'

I wouldnt want to be the PSD that does, but on the other hand, I really don't care the outcome of those other divers as long as it didnt direclty affect me (liablility wise, not moraly).

I care what happens to those divers but I don't have any control over it. If it were up to me, I would remove those UGLY permenant lights and those unsightly breathing bells and do whatever I could to discourage OW divers from going in at all.

Once they get as far as the gate, they're already cave diving.

I'm not a cave diver, but my worry would be trying to come out and having a dead OW diver in my way wedged into one of those restrictions, not because i'm dead, but because there is a stiff body wedged into a tight place I need to go through.

Not to worry. It's not tight enough to get stuck until you get way in there. No one is going that far on a single 80.

 

[Cheekymonkey]

Ah then I have to say, next time you fill out your release to go diving just see if there is anything related to opening hte gate in the presence of OW divers, and if there isnt I wouldnt worry about it man, you can't protect stupid, I know that sounds harsh, but I don't think there is an agency out there that doesnt talk about the dangers of exceeding training and going into overhead enviroments. You might be getting in the way of Darwin there

 

[MikeFerrara]

Whan I was there the release didn't say anything about opening the gate when OW divers are around. On the weekend they're always around. The property rules do say that you have to be cave trained to get the key or go past the gate. The only ones who would be breaking a rule is the OW divers going into the cave.

 

[boat sju]

Sounds to me like the Vortex Management should provide a DM to guard the gate when it's unlocked. I would guess from the web site, and this discussion, that anytime there are cave divers past the gate there are also OW divers milling around the entrance anyway. What gives anyone, other than management, the right to tell someone else what to do - especially if they're not breaking any rules?

 

[String]

Why try and protect idiots from themselves? Let darwin do that.

Have a nice dive.

 

[Dive-aholic]

I might even show them my wet note that says "I'll be back for your gear."

I like that. I think I'll have to make that a permanent page in my notes!

Mike, how far past the gate does it go before sidemount is required? The website makes it look like it's right past the gate. I'm going to Vortex for the first time this month. I've read up on it and it looks like a decent place to train (during the week), so we're bringing some family there. I was considering going beyond the gate, but had blown it off due to the sidemount issue. If I can still get a couple hundred feet in back mount, I might just check out the key.

BTW, I thought the handrail thing they talk about on the website was pretty bad. I didn't realize they hung xmas lights, too!

 

[MikeFerrara]

I like that. I think I'll have to make that a permanent page in my notes!

Mike, how far past the gate does it go before sidemount is required? The website makes it look like it's right past the gate. I'm going to Vortex for the first time this month. I've read up on it and it looks like a decent place to train (during the week), so we're bringing some family there. I was considering going beyond the gate, but had blown it off due to the sidemount issue. If I can still get a couple hundred feet in back mount, I might just check out the key.

BTW, I thought the handrail thing they talk about on the website was pretty bad. I didn't realize they hung xmas lights, too!

I can't give actual distances. The funny thing is, that last time I dived it, was a couple of years ago when I was helping some friends who were doing a survey for the owners but I haven't gotten a copy of the new map. All the maps on the net that I've found are the old one. If you get to vortex, ask to see the new map. It's nice and the cave was even radio mapped to the surface. The survey team was Jason Gulley, Steve Keene and Sue Sharples. My wife and I were grunts mixing gas and doing setup and cleanup dives.

You can go far enough to make a little dive of it anyway. Just past the gate there is a low area but I've fit through in doubles and carrying a whole bunch of stage bottles. After that, it opens up into a nice sized tunnel that you could just about drive a car through. Then there is a vertical fissure (as I call it). It's tall but you can reach across it from side to side...IMO, the prettiest part of the cave. At the end of the fissure, there is a little restriction down on the floor but it's still more than big enough to get through wearing doubles. Again, I've been through it with doubles and stages. After that its low and wide. It's easiest to avoid bumping and banging if you get off the line a little and do some zigging and zagging to pick the spots with more clearance but it's easy enough to get through in doubles. I haven't been all the way back to the next restriction because I always had too much tank hauling to do but someplace back there it really does become sidemount and even then you have to pick your rout from what I've been told and have seen on video. It gets real small and high flow. LOL, I have some good video that shows how the survey divers were getting stages through. The cave doesn't go much past the last restriction that anyone has found.

I think it's worth doing if you are going to be there anyway.

 

[AXL72]

I would be too paranoid that someone from the other group would lock the gate behind me and my group in retaliation or as a sick joke if I were to play scuba police.


How about just locking the gate behind you, or are the gates plated, only able to be unlocked from one side? Iguess somene could still come and retaliate with one of their own locks on top of the one you have a key for.


How about just pointing to the grim reaper sign that says "WARNING.....There is nothing inside this cave that is worth diving for....."