I'll make it even siumpler.--from my obswrvations in a lot of cases "instant A#@#@ just add camera. seems applicable.
A little tip for noobs with cameras...
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I guess I will have to say I am not in 100% agreement here.
I think it depends on the person, the camera and the site. I certainly agree that skills need to be solid.. some get there faster than others.
I think sometimes having a little point and shoot camera in a benign dive site with competent supervision may help some divers stop focusing so much on their breathing and fear levels that they allow themselves to breathe and behave more naturally. I admit the number of occasions this may apply is limited but I believe they do exist.
A message I would and have given divers considering their first UW camera is use the KISS principle. Get the simplest, easiest to manage camera, no strobes, no lenses and one you have a pocket you can stow it in! Clip it off to you but consider it a "throw away". Stow it before entry and exit so you don't have to worry about it. Practice stowing it so if things look awkward you can do so easily. No camera and no picture is worth your life! It is nice to have memories of the dive you can share but start slowly and expand only with appropriate honest self assessment.
Like every other piece of gear we purchase your skill and experience should dictate the purchase. I have seen too many people so focused on "getting the right shot" that they lose track of everything else. If you are not capable of maintaining Situational Awareness, Buddy contact (unless solo diving of course), bouyancy control and awareness of your gas etc while handling a camera you need to leave it behind! My other observation and there are exceptions.. the more expensive and bigger the camera the more likely the shot and camera become the total focus.
Adding a camera doesn't make a person an **** but some **** do have cameras!
I think it depends on the person, the camera and the site. I certainly agree that skills need to be solid.. some get there faster than others. I think sometimes having a little point and shoot camera in a benign dive site with competent supervision may help some divers stop focusing so much on their breathing and fear levels that they allow themselves to breathe and behave more naturally. I admit the number of occasions this may apply is limited but I believe they do exist.
A message I would and have given divers considering their first UW camera is use the KISS principle. Get the simplest, easiest to manage camera, no strobes, no lenses and one you have a pocket you can stow it in! Clip it off to you but consider it a "throw away". Stow it before entry and exit so you don't have to worry about it. Practice stowing it so if things look awkward you can do so easily. No camera and no picture is worth your life! It is nice to have memories of the dive you can share but start slowly and expand only with appropriate honest self assessment.
Like every other piece of gear we purchase your skill and experience should dictate the purchase. I have seen too many people so focused on "getting the right shot" that they lose track of everything else. If you are not capable of maintaining Situational Awareness, Buddy contact (unless solo diving of course), bouyancy control and awareness of your gas etc while handling a camera you need to leave it behind! My other observation and there are exceptions.. the more expensive and bigger the camera the more likely the shot and camera become the total focus.
Adding a camera doesn't make a person an **** but some **** do have cameras!
We encourage our students to do the underwater photography dive in their AOW class, because doing so has so far shown each and every one of them how badly their buoyancy control, trim, and situational awareness suffers under the influence of a camera.
Taking a camera on a simple dive in a site that isn't delicate can be a real learning and practice experience. Taking a camera on a dive that challenges your limits in other ways can be a disaster. To this day, my husband and I will both make the decision to leave the camera on land if there is something about that particular dive that looks like it might push us in other ways -- and I've left it clipped off the whole dive, when I miscalculated and ended up with it where I shouldn't have.
Taking a camera on a simple dive in a site that isn't delicate can be a real learning and practice experience. Taking a camera on a dive that challenges your limits in other ways can be a disaster. To this day, my husband and I will both make the decision to leave the camera on land if there is something about that particular dive that looks like it might push us in other ways -- and I've left it clipped off the whole dive, when I miscalculated and ended up with it where I shouldn't have.
I can sure relate to that TSanM. I got a strobe too early. It was a wonderful gift BUT it resulted in me leaving the camera behind more often than not. We would get to the site, check conditions and I would decide they didn't allow for that camera system. I got smart tho. I ditched the strobe, put the camera in my pocket where I could use it or not depending on conditions underwater. I still tend to opt for Point and Shoot in pocket. I always have a camera but I don't always take it out!
The other factor of course .. physical dexterity! I have a fused wrist so with one weaker hand I do not want to tie my "good hand" up with a camera. I will only take my camera with strobes where I am sure of conditions make it safe to do so! I think it does go back to honest self assessment and appropriate dive planning.
The other factor of course .. physical dexterity! I have a fused wrist so with one weaker hand I do not want to tie my "good hand" up with a camera. I will only take my camera with strobes where I am sure of conditions make it safe to do so! I think it does go back to honest self assessment and appropriate dive planning.
phoenix31tt
Contributor
We have been diving with a camera from the get go... But during the initial dives we swapped the camera each dive to learn our skills... Also Its a combination of the individual, familiarity with the type of dive site and KNOWING your camera...
1. If you're an obsessive photographer that HAS to get that shot and gets tunnel vision... Problems
2. If you aren't familiar with the type of dive site, leave the camera for the first dive.. If you haven't dived recently (month or more) leave the came for the first dive
3. You cannot be learning how to us the camera or the strobe etc underwater... You should already be very familiar with how everything works and only minor adjustments should be made underwater
We've never had anything close to an issue or buddy separation because of the cam... While framing a shot my eyes shoot from cam to target to buddy.. If I loose the shot because of it.. So be it.. Safety is more important
Sent from my Nokia Lumia 920
1. If you're an obsessive photographer that HAS to get that shot and gets tunnel vision... Problems
2. If you aren't familiar with the type of dive site, leave the camera for the first dive.. If you haven't dived recently (month or more) leave the came for the first dive
3. You cannot be learning how to us the camera or the strobe etc underwater... You should already be very familiar with how everything works and only minor adjustments should be made underwater
We've never had anything close to an issue or buddy separation because of the cam... While framing a shot my eyes shoot from cam to target to buddy.. If I loose the shot because of it.. So be it.. Safety is more important
Sent from my Nokia Lumia 920
Guilty as charged. Got a P&S almost as soon as I started diving but then I am not a serious photographer and avoided challenging dives at first. Plus I am a shoot and move on kind of photographer.
Did discover that at first when I would go to take a picture I would find myself looking down at the target. My air consumption did not go up with the camera. It went down. In a bad way, I was holding my breath while shooting. Corrected now, but something else for beginners to watch out for.
Did discover that at first when I would go to take a picture I would find myself looking down at the target. My air consumption did not go up with the camera. It went down. In a bad way, I was holding my breath while shooting. Corrected now, but something else for beginners to watch out for.
OP
Thanks for the responses to the original post, its nice to hear some thoughts along the initial idea. In the recent postshttp://www.scubaboard.com/forums/members/bowlofpetunias-91608.htmlbowlofpetunias & phoenix31tt support bringing a camera along early if done in a good and safe way. I agree with this and can even see the value in it but unfortunately for the mass that I have seen when people bring cameras along there is little thought that has gone in to it. We can not make general rules to go accross the board because divers vary so much in their attitudes and ability from person to person and what can seem like a well thought out or common sense approach to one person would not even be given a second thought by another.
This kind of marries up with a thought that I have had for a while which is that people do not fully accept the potential danger in what they are doing which creates an approach to the sport which is too relaxed (in some cases). As we know diving is a very safe sport when done correctly but I think that people can have too much confidence in what they are doing and be inclined to push the limits too far too soon. Photography could be an example of this because it could be easy for someone to think that bringing a camera along would be completely harmless and in no way affect their dive. I guess what I am trying to say is that everyone is different and managing an increase in tasks needs to be done appropriately in each case as opposed to blindly loading them on to the dive.
This kind of marries up with a thought that I have had for a while which is that people do not fully accept the potential danger in what they are doing which creates an approach to the sport which is too relaxed (in some cases). As we know diving is a very safe sport when done correctly but I think that people can have too much confidence in what they are doing and be inclined to push the limits too far too soon. Photography could be an example of this because it could be easy for someone to think that bringing a camera along would be completely harmless and in no way affect their dive. I guess what I am trying to say is that everyone is different and managing an increase in tasks needs to be done appropriately in each case as opposed to blindly loading them on to the dive.
BUDMANOK
Contributor
taking pictures is secondary to everything else. camera stays clipped until my buoyancy is correct and I'm comfortable. I can drop it at any time since it's on a tether.
drrich2
Contributor
It's easy to paint photography with a broad brush. Some people carefully compose shots in manual mode, and others have already mentioned the added hassle of strobes adding complexity and bulk.
I'm one of those people who takes snap shots in part to log the dive from a visual perspective. I won't long remember what I saw on the dive, and if I don't get pictures, pretty soon it's like the dive didn't happen, and that's frustrating. Reviewing my shots later, and showing them to friends, is part of the joy and experience of diving for me.
That said, these days I put my point-&-shoot (no external strobe, in underwater mode so no manual fiddling) on a snappy coil and clip it to my upper right D-ring. I used to wear it on my right wrist via lanyard, but there's the distraction that it could come off, and it somewhat ties up the hand when exiting. The snappy coil I'm using is long enough I don't even have to 'open it up' and take advantage of the coil; I can use it when I need it, let it go and ignore it when I don't, and let it dangle when I'm exiting. Not much added hassle.
But yes, trying to carefully compose shots can blow buoyancy and cause reef damage. Be aware.
Richard.
I'm one of those people who takes snap shots in part to log the dive from a visual perspective. I won't long remember what I saw on the dive, and if I don't get pictures, pretty soon it's like the dive didn't happen, and that's frustrating. Reviewing my shots later, and showing them to friends, is part of the joy and experience of diving for me.
That said, these days I put my point-&-shoot (no external strobe, in underwater mode so no manual fiddling) on a snappy coil and clip it to my upper right D-ring. I used to wear it on my right wrist via lanyard, but there's the distraction that it could come off, and it somewhat ties up the hand when exiting. The snappy coil I'm using is long enough I don't even have to 'open it up' and take advantage of the coil; I can use it when I need it, let it go and ignore it when I don't, and let it dangle when I'm exiting. Not much added hassle.
But yes, trying to carefully compose shots can blow buoyancy and cause reef damage. Be aware.
Richard.
Shannonwbruce
Registered
With less than 50 dives, I guess I qualify as a "noob with a camera". I have both a Mini II and a p&s in an Ikelite case, not strobes to worry with though.
I find it helps me control my buoyancy better, since you need to be able to hover to frame a shot and I was always grossly overweighted on dives. However, I have seen some of the other divers not paying attention to their surroundings (running into or kicking coral) or the guides because they are too busy playing with their equipment.
just my 0.02
I find it helps me control my buoyancy better, since you need to be able to hover to frame a shot and I was always grossly overweighted on dives. However, I have seen some of the other divers not paying attention to their surroundings (running into or kicking coral) or the guides because they are too busy playing with their equipment.
just my 0.02
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