A little confused about overhead environment

[shark_tamer]

Hey samwiley,

I would hate to see a new post that looks like that :

One of our newest member, samwiley, dies while diving the Ginnie Ballroom

 

[BabyDuck]

not trying to stir any pots, but as i posted before, the ballroom has a light at night, so it's still a cavern dive.

 

[Papa_Bear]

And if the light goes out? :depressed:

 

[ScubaSteve]

Agreed. I didn't mean to give any advice, my apologies. Consider my mouth shut.

I think you can still (and should ) participate in conversations and threads Cornboy. You do not need to "keep your mouth shut" . What you do need to do is ask questions and learn from what the more expereinced divers offer as advice. Even if that advice goes against what you believe.....you need to listen and consider it because of the experience behind it. Most people on ScubaBoard will post basically the same advice which corroberates what the rest are saying.

AND you need to realize that what you went on in Ginnie was a "Trust Me" dive. You greatly exceeded your training and put yourself in extreme danger because you believed your buddy could handle any problem. You had better limit your diving to your training and become self sufficient to where you can handle ny stuations and not rely on your buddy as much. Then you can consider (and should consider) further training.

not trying to stir any pots, but as i posted before, the ballroom has a light at night, so it's still a cavern dive.

And Cavern = Open Water with 12 dives? Consider the pot stirred . Considering the dangers, I do not think it wise to suggest that new divers enter caverns. What is next? Caves? Remember the current (but closed) Hudson deaths thread? A diver needs to keep to the diving that falls within their level of training until they advance their training.

 

[willembad]

A little more than a year ago I did my 16th dive in the Ballroom. I really enjoyed myself and thought it was a great experience. Two weeks ago I finished my Cavern cert at Ginnie and a lot of that happened in the Ballroom (dives ~110 IIRC). The thing that stood out the most of all I learned - and I learned A LOT! - is something that will serve you well if you care to remember: You don't know what you don't know.

I cringe when I think back to dive #16. Lots of people get away with it at Ginnie but it can go very wrong in there.

If you must experience the springs, drive to Devil's Den. It is a beautiful setting, just as cold with lots of dark spaces, but a big part of it can be seen without venturing to far from "open water". If you do get lured into looking further there is nowhere really to "go" in there and it doesn't get too deep.

Make good decisions and have fun.

Willem

 

[NudeDiver]

Never heard of Ginnie Springs - never heard of the ballroom - so I did a google, found a 9 minute video clip of a dive in there.

I am shocked that they would allow just any diver to go in there. Really surprised.

 

[BabyDuck]

And if the light goes out? :depressed:

and if the sun goes behind a cloud? and if it starts raining? in cavern, the sun is your primary. ginnie just takes over the sun's job with a light at dusk.

 

[Papa_Bear]

And if the light goes out?:shocked2: The point is it is an overhead environment and anyone with 10 dives should not go! Period! The only way is with someone who can recover them when the Sh... hits the fan!

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

and if the sun goes behind a cloud? and if it starts raining? in cavern, the sun is your primary. ginnie just takes over the sun's job with a light at dusk.

In OW diving as practiced by someone with OW certification, they are diving fewer than 3 atmospheres with nothing overhead. If everything goes dark they simply rise to the surface safely.

That's what they do if the sun goes behind a cloud or it starts raining or their mask comes off and falls away out of reach or, ... , or, ..., or...

They do not need to remember to find the exit. Or hope that the light doesn't fail. Or that they brought two working backup lights. Or get either backup lights working without dropping them.

If you are stating that this dive is safe relative to other cavern dives, fine, agreed, I'll take your word for it. But it is clearly less safe than the environment for which the OP and I are trained.

 

[LIVES4SHARKS]

Never heard of Ginnie Springs - never heard of the ballroom - so I did a google, found a 9 minute video clip of a dive in there.

I am shocked that they would allow just any diver to go in there. Really surprised.

I agree with that from some experiences I have had there. I went to the entrance of the ballroom not too long after my check out dives with my mentor. Since I had no control of buoyancy or understood proper technique for this type of diving I did not enter and my mentor did not allow me to go in either. I later went back to Ginnie with over 50 dives under me with additional training and entered the ballroom. I watched a class of new OW students enter with 2 instructors. Myself and my dive buddy just hovered in the back corner and watched the chaos ensue! In a matter of seconds the class was all over the ballroom totally out of visual range of the instructors or each other for that matter with lights flashing everywhere. Suddenly, a student looked to have trouble and was escorted out of the cavern immediately. That left 9 new unexeperienced divers with 1 instructor. This could have been a tragedy waiting to happen. My dive buddy and I stayed in the cavern until all of these divers were safely out. We assisted 3 of them who hadn't realized the class had headed out. Like other posters have said, the entrance to this cavern is not very big and the line (rope) is on the ceiling of the cavern. If you had no training and had light failure and you were in the back of the cavern....how do you get out? With a large number of divers causing distraction all over the ballroom, how would you see someone having trouble? In a panic, and no rehearsed skills to fall back on, what do you do? There are a thousands of scenarios that can occur, and what I have been learning from my cavern class and other cave divers, is that there is a REASON to be trained for this type of diving. Your team member, gear, dive plan, and gas managment are critical. One mistake can be a fatal one...there is no dropping weights and praying in this type of diving.

I would highly recommend the following book, it has been very educational for me.

BASIC CAVE DIVING ~a blueprint for survival~
By Sheck Exley
Amazon.com: Basic Cave Diving: A Blueprint for Survival: S. Exley: Books

Happy safe diving!
Carolyn:shark2: