A Good Reason For Air2?

[yknot]

IMO, the key here is what he's going to use for his OW certs. I'd be shocked if the gear he rents in the Bahamas will have an Air2 rig on it, so the rent vs. borrow argument is moot. If his instructor has given him the impression that he will find an Air2 on his rental gear, then he either has specific knowledge, or he is selling a bill of goods, as I have never seen a rental reg set up that way in the islands.

ynot, I think your buddy is in for a rude awakening when he gets where he's going and sees what is available in rental gear. :11: But, maybe he is also the type of person who will learn with his wallet...

Exactly part of my point. Also, maybe it's just a local thing but the big manufacturer that seems to really push the Air2's is ScubaPro. The Aqualung dealers around here don't. Maybe that has something to do with the new Fusion BC's. Afterall, it's hard to convince someone that a BC is better because it doesn't have an inflator hose hanging on it and then sell an integrated octo also.

 

[archman]

IMO, the key here is what he's going to use for his OW certs. I'd be shocked if the gear he rents in the Bahamas will have an Air2 rig on it, so the rent vs. borrow argument is moot. If his instructor has given him the impression that he will find an Air2 on his rental gear, then he either has specific knowledge, or he is selling a bill of goods, as I have never seen a rental reg set up that way in the islands.

Good point. I assumed he was renting the shop gear he was currently training on, and flying down with it. Renting gear down in the Bahamas is a completely different story. This instructor is starting to sound like a newbie, that or he's a pro directly in communication with the shop down in the Commonwealth. I'd argue the former, just from my own experiences.

 

[Rondo]

I was pool trained on an Air 2

I did my open waters with a standard octo

I rented with standard octo for many dives

I bought the gear with air 2 I was originally trained on cheap

I've since replaced the original 1st and 2nd stage but kept the air 2.

I will soon replace the air2,no real reason other than it breathes so -so,and not that great for caverns.

I really like having it located on my shoulder,but a regular octo can be bungeed under your chin also convenient.

I think using and knowing both is fine,neither being perfect,I only breathe off my octo(air2) on safety stops for practice,never had to use it for real except during Rescue Training,I was actually kind of glad I had the air2 then,I was totally task overloaded and it seemed more handy than the rental octo configurations I had used many times.

I guess in my mind as long as I have a backup that breathes well the type really doesn't matter (air2s don't breathe very well below 70 ft. unbalanced),but sufficient for an emergency(except that it's the one I have to use,my buddy gets the good reg.)

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Educate him on a standard octo. and explain to him that the setup is more common than an integrated air inflator system. You don't have to convince him its better, just tell him in a way that provide him the knowledge to use that type of setup. He should know incase he has an OOA experience and his buddy happens to be running a setup with an octo. My LDS explained to us the use of an octo(which is what we trained with) while he used an AirII. He also showed us how to handle an OOA with an AirII.

I also pointed out that octos very rarely funtion for the benefit of you as a diver but rather for the use of your out of air buddy. I also pointed out that a truly out of air diver isn't likely to grab your inflator hose.

Thats not necessarily true. Several people teach donating your primary 2nd since its known to work(you are breathing off of it afterall). Chances are, if there is an OOA diver with any amount of stress, he'll be grabbing the working reg out of your mouth anyway. This will leave you with collecting your octo or AirII. Remember, they're usually a hellovalot more panicked than you are

 

[archman]

I was pool trained on an Air 2

I did my open waters with a standard octo

Rondo, why did you use a different reg setup on your checkouts? Did your instructor train you on a standard octo at any time prior to your checkouts?

This sounds very odd. I do not understand why an instructor would teach confined water with one type of gear, and then perform checkout dives with another. Alternate air regs are sufficiently different from standard octos to complicate/muddle the checkoff skills verification during the first open water dives. Some instructors would even label such teaching as dangerous, since what's being trained on is not what's being dived on.

Heck, I wear an AIR2, but when teaching OW skills, I attach a tertiary octopus, and train students on the octopus. The AIR2 is relegated to just a glorified inflator during these times, so the students don't get all confused.

 

[Rondo]

I did a referral to Cozumel for OW,thus I was using typical dive op gear,no air2.

Most of us in Colorado have to go elsewhere to dive,that's why I've recently enrolled in the new PADI course,ADVANCED ASTRAL PROJECTION DIVER, coursework includes sitting at a computer terminal viewing trip reports from exotic locations and projecting your mind and spirit to that spot.It's only offered in land locked states where we have to fly 4 hrs. just to see the ocean.

 

[pennypue]

I did a referral to Cozumel for OW,thus I was using typical dive op gear,no air2.

Most of us in Colorado have to go elsewhere to dive,that's why I've recently enrolled in the new PADI course,ADVANCED ASTRAL PROJECTION DIVER, coursework includes sitting at a computer terminal viewing trip reports from exotic locations and projecting your mind and spirit to that spot.It's only offered in land locked states where we have to fly 4 hrs. just to see the ocean.

:laughing:
I'd love to just have a card that says that!!!!

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I agree with the idea that both the Air 2 and conventional octo arguments have merit and that both are ideal under differing circumstances.

I also pointed out that octos very rarely funtion for the benefit of you as a diver but rather for the use of your out of air buddy. I also pointed out that a truly out of air diver isn't likely to grab your inflator hose.

I agree with you on this as he will most certainly not grab for your inflator hose. But he also will not go for your octo either.

The fact is that in most recreational situations the average semi panicky diver in a truly out of air situation will go for the reg in your mouth since he can see it, he knows where to find it, and he knows it works. Murphy's law dictates he will mug you for it right after you exhale so being able to find your octo in a hurry and being sure it will work becomes important, particularly if the OOA diver is totally panicked and immediately starts clawing their way to the surface.

In my opinion, there is a real advantage to having an Air 2 in that situation as it is always at hand and I have never seen one filled with silt, sand etc, as their use as the inflator keeps them flushed and ready for use. I cannot say the same for the standard octo.

Where an Air 2 is at a disadvantage is for a technical diver who may have to swim along the bottom, out of a cave, wreck, etc, rather than make an immediate ascent to the surface. In that situation a normal octo allowing more head movement is beneficial. But I also need to point out in that situation the diver will be donating the primary reg, normally on a 7' hose, to the OOA diver and using a conventional second stage on a normal 22 to 26" hose himself. Putting the diver on the long hose makes it much easier for both divers to swim normally.

In a recreational situation it would be preferable to have the OOA diver on the longer 40" octo hose, but it usually does not work that way. A 40" primary hose does not route well, sticks out way too much, and is uncomfortable as it tries to push the reg to the left. So unless you can switch after the OOA diver calms a bit, you will be stuck face to face with the OOA diver using your primary on the end of a 22" to 26" hose. In that case, you might as well have an Air 2.

For this reason alone however, I predict that within 5 to 10 years, a long hose (5' to 7') primary second stage will be standard equipment for recreational divers as will the concept of donating the primary reg to an OOA diver. At that point, an Air 2 will be hard to justify as it will offer little advantage over a long hose primnary/short hose octo arrangement. I have not yet met a diver who tried a long hose primary second stage in realistic conditions that did not like it and the only thing preventing the change in at the recreational level is institutional inertia from instructors and agencies who still teach and promote the current methods of donating an octo on a 40" hose.

In short, despite current recreational training practices, I can think of few real life situations where the OOA diver is the one using the octo. So the moral of the story is to buy a very good quality octo and keep it well maintained as it will be in your mouth, not the other diver's.

 

[lorien]

I trained in my OW class on an Air2, personally I did not care for it and went with a standard octo as soon as I bought my own gear. However, before I bought I rented. All rental equipment I used had a stardard octo anywhere I have been. I think this is the real issue, not which is better or worse as I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on that one. Everyone has their preference. But, IMO the real issue here is that this guy is training in the pool on an Air2 and the instructor is telling him how great it is and that it is better than an octo and he is going to go elsewhere to do his OW dives where he is going to rent gear and he is probably going to be very shocked to see that he has a standard octo to deal with, a piece of equipment that he is not familiar with or comfortable with due to his instructors seemingly strong feelings on the matter. I would not offer my gear to him again but I would let him know that most likely he will be dealing with a standard octo on his trip and that maybe he should get some work done with it in the pool before leaving, just have him explain to his instructor that he wants to be comfortable with the kind of gear he will be using in his OW dives. If the instructor cannot understand that or has a problem with it then that is another story......................

 

[Wijbrandus]

Most of us in Colorado have to go elsewhere to dive,that's why I've recently enrolled in the new PADI course,ADVANCED ASTRAL PROJECTION DIVER, coursework includes sitting at a computer terminal viewing trip reports from exotic locations and projecting your mind and spirit to that spot.It's only offered in land locked states where we have to fly 4 hrs. just to see the ocean.

What, a 30' deep puddle with the vis and consistency of chocolate frosting isn't your idea of fun diving? What's wrong with you?

On topic, my wife really likes the idea of the AIR2. She bought her Ladyhawk with it, but hasn't had a chance to dive on it yet. She'd probably get an air-integrated computer if I could afford it as well. For recreational diving, I don't see a problem with them. We've already discussed the different way of sharing air compared to her training.

She also wanted to put a long hose on her primary... Somehow I haven't quite gotten around to that yet.