A few questions on specialty courses

[TSandM]

You don't say anything about where you are, but in some places, it's not too hard to find a mentor who can take you out and work with you on issues like precise buoyancy control. From what you have written, you're motivated and a quick study, and people like that are a joy to dive with and help, and watch develop.

ESPECIALLY because you mention having some interest in eventual technical diving, I would HIGHLY recommend doing one of the Intro to Tech classes, or GUE Fundamentals, or UTD Essentials (depending on what's available in your area) in a single tank, and as soon as you have pretty decent basic buoyancy skills. Not only will you have a better idea of what the standard of performance is for tech diving (and it is QUITE different from the run of the mill recreational class) but you will begin to develop skills that will make your recreational diving both stress-free and a lot more fun. Unless you have an unusual instructor, it is highly unlikely you will get that education from any mainstream recreational diving class.

Let us know where you are, and we can be more specifically helpful.

 

[theshred201]

NAUI does offer an excellent Introduction to Technical Diving class that really hones buoyancy and trim skills, teamwork, dive planning, gas management, etc. Definitely get cracking on the Adv. Diver, I would also add in the Nitrox at the same time, that way you can do the coursework and get the dives in.

Jeff

I'll address Intro to tech courses a bit farther down my post. Looks like I'll probably be doing my AOW in about 3 weeks. I don't know if I'll be able to do Nitrox at the same time, but it's towards the top of my list as far as specialties are concerned.

on the same note - PADI/DSAT offer a Discover Tec class as of last year - I forget the minimum requirements of the top of my head and it is to tec diving what a DSD/try dive is to diving in general - but that - or the NAUI course should give you a taster before you head into proper tec - if nothing else, it will let you know if you want to pursue that field or not; it can be a *very* expensive pastime, so you want to make sure you like it! ;-)

Always happy to help,

Cheers

Crowley

Yes, in what research I've done I have noticed that Tech Diving can be quite expensive.

While NAUI doers not have an official PPB class, that can and should be taught, IMHO, in the OW class and enhanced in the AOW class. As a NAUI Instructor, I make it one of their 6 required dives. I cannot in good conscious give an AOW card to someone who hasn't demonstrated some degree of proficiency in being able to control their buoyancy for the reasons Jim mentioned earlier. Talk to your Instructors at the shop that certified you and see if they cannot incorporate a PPB session amongst your required dives. I also suggest that my students take the Nitrox course as a part of their AOW class. This is not mandatory of course, but if they plan to regularly dive below 60 feet, then they should consider diving using Nitrox. At the end of the course, they get both the AOW and Nitrox certifications. I am sure your LDS should be able to work out a similar deal with you. If you like them and feel comfortable with them, discuss your options with them. I cannot comment on the Hunter/Collector issue, nor the spearfishing issue. I am sure some of our seasoned hunters will chime in on the topic. The Drysuit specialty is also a nice one. Depending on the type of diving you will be doing, as well as the estimated water temp, the use of a dry suit may be helpful. While many people learned to use a dry suit without taking an official class (myself included), if you are considering your AOW certification and you need 3 dives beyond the required 3 (6 total), it isn't a bad idea to have an Instructor walk you through the basics, including emergency procedures, maintenance and care, and choice of manufacturer. Good luck and welcome to the world of diving.

As I mentioned earlier this thread, I'm somewhat comfortable with my buoyancy, they did go into some buoyancy stuff for OW, and they may add more in the AOW dives. I'll bring up Nitrox at the same time as AOW next time I talk to them (should see them tomorrow). Drysuit diving is another thing I've looked into a bit, and plan on learning. It's not quite as high of a priority for me as Nitrox, but I'd like to learn how to use a drysuit, and it seems useful. During the certification dives for my OW, all 3 of the course instructors were wearing Dry suits. The water temp. of dives I've done has ranged from 59 to 52 degrees F, so Drysuits are quite a reasonable choice, though that's not to say the 7mm. wetsuits haven't been fine.

That's a good idea and one which escaped my brain during my last post - I've been in the tropics too long! Even diving in relatively warm water may require a drysuit if you're going to be submerged for a fair bit of time and it may well be a fair but colder down at depth than in the recreational shallows!

Warm diving,

C.

Touched on this above. I suppose I'll find out what the temp is like a bit deeper soon since thus far I've only gone to 58 Ft, but my AOW dives will get a bit deeper.

You don't say anything about where you are, but in some places, it's not too hard to find a mentor who can take you out and work with you on issues like precise buoyancy control. From what you have written, you're motivated and a quick study, and people like that are a joy to dive with and help, and watch develop.

ESPECIALLY because you mention having some interest in eventual technical diving, I would HIGHLY recommend doing one of the Intro to Tech classes, or GUE Fundamentals, or UTD Essentials (depending on what's available in your area) in a single tank, and as soon as you have pretty decent basic buoyancy skills. Not only will you have a better idea of what the standard of performance is for tech diving (and it is QUITE different from the run of the mill recreational class) but you will begin to develop skills that will make your recreational diving both stress-free and a lot more fun. Unless you have an unusual instructor, it is highly unlikely you will get that education from any mainstream recreational diving class.

Let us know where you are, and we can be more specifically helpful.

I'm in San Diego, CA. During summer I could probably get up to LA for some diving stuff if necessary. I'll probably wait until summer until I worry about trying to find a mentor and stuff like that, as life is quite busy right now. For the meantime, I'm just trying to get out and dive when I have time (Tomorrow for example), but in a few months I should have plenty of free time to go diving routinely and frequently.

Now to touch on the various intro to Tech classes and stuff. As I mentioned, I do have an interest in eventually pursuing technical diving. However, I noted that this is a somewhat distant plan, both because I feel that I should get more experience first, and because in general you have to be at least 18 for just about any technical diving stuff. For example, with intro to tech courses:
PADI/DSAT's Discover Tec
SSI TechXR's Technical Foundations
UDT's Intro to Tech
NAUI's Intro To Tech
Those 4 are all 18 minimum.
GUE's Fundamentals is 16 and up, though Tech level 1 is 18.
TDI's Intro to Tech is 15 and up from what I could find. This may be a good one for me to look into, as several places near my offer TDI courses. Then again, I haven't looked into GUE instructors here.
I'm not sure what IANTD's age requirements are.
Basically though, it looks like I'll most likely need to wait another 2.5 years or so before getting into much technical diving. I'll talk to the instructors at my LDS sometime soon about this anyways.

As I've mentioned before, I'm grateful for all of your help.
Thanks,
Griffin


Edit:
Just to give a quick update, before my dive today, I checked with my LDS, and I'll be doing nitrox w/ my AOW. Only did one dive today, but it went well. I feel like I controlled my buoyancy and trim pretty well. On the way down (descended under control to about 15', then went along the bottom down to the canyon), I felt very good about everything. I hovered quite easily, had no problems with dragging on the bottom/floating away/bouncing up and down with my breathing, and stayed horizontal. By the time I got to the canyon, at first I was a tad negative, but added some air to my BC, and was fine throughout the canyon. On the way back in towards shore along the bottom however, I did occasionally have to support myself a little (one finger on each hand on the bottom) from time to time. It's hard to say for sure, but I attribute this to either A. letting too much air out of my BC while trying to account for it's expansion as I worked back towards the surface, or simply not accounting for the slight slope of the bottom as I swam (If I was swimming parallel to the surface, and the bottom was sloping up Eventually I'd hit it). Perhaps it was a bit of both, but my best guess is primarily A. Just something for me to think about next time I go diving.

 

[theshred201]

Just to let everyone know what's going on:
The first two dives toward my AOW are Sunday. We're making two non-penetrative wreck dives, off a boat, as opposed to the shore diving I did for my OW. They'll be in about 80' and 110' of water if I remember correctly.
I will be doing the classroom portion of my nitrox at the soonest time that works for both the dive shop and me, hopefully next week.
Also, I purchased the rest of the scuba gear I needed today (I already got my Mask, Fins, Snorkel, and wet...actually semi-drysuit), so I'm all set up. Actually, I don't have a dive light right now, but that will come soon. My LDS was sold out of the light they recommended I purchase today.

 

[DevonDiver]

on the same note - PADI/DSAT offer a Discover Tec class as of last year - I forget the minimum requirements of the top of my head and it is to tec diving what a DSD/try dive is to diving in general - but that - or the NAUI course should give you a taster before you head into proper tec - if nothing else, it will let you know if you want to pursue that field or not; it can be a *very* expensive pastime, so you want to make sure you like it! ;-)

Always happy to help,

Cheers

Crowley

I think this might be slightly out of date....

PADI Tec Basics
(August 2007)

Course Overview: The course is designed to be a bridge from PADI courses to DSAT courses providing recreational divers an opportunity to gain exposure to tec diving and learn and practice entry level tec diving skills. It introduces recreational divers to tec diving without them having to make the larger commitment (in terms of equipment, time and cost) of the DSAT Tec Deep course. PADI Tec Basics dive scope is within recreational limits, using segments from DSAT Tec Deep 1.

Likewise, this specialty course may be credited toward DSAT Tec Level 1. In addition, the course provides DSAT Instructors a recognition level for students who choose not to continue their technical training.

Instructor Requirements DSAT Tec Deep Instructor

Diver Prerequisites

1. PADI Advanced Open Water Diver or qualifying prerequisite certification.
2. PADI Enriched Air Diver or qualifying prerequisite certification.
PADI Rescue Diver is recommended.

Required Student Materials DSAT Tec Deep Diver Manual

Minimum Age: 18 years of age
Maximum depth: 24 metres/80 feet.
Dives (Confined Water) 2 dives
Dives (Open Water) 2 dives

Academic Content: Students must read chapters one and two in the Tec Deep Diver manual and complete the Knowledge Reviews for each. This may be done as pre-study. It is recommended instructors hold one classroom session to review missed questions on Knowledge Reviews and any other questions students have.

Practical Applications: Instructors must conduct Practical Application One as outlined in the DSAT Tec Deep Instructor Guide page 3-42 prior to Training Dive One in confined water. Practical Application Two must be conducted prior to Training Dive Two in confined water.

Confined Water: Conduct Training Dives One and Two as outlined in the Tec Deep Dive Instructor Guide. Have students calculate a turn pressure based on thirds and write it on their slate. Have students use the Equipment Check List slate and analyze their gas. It is recommended students also list the skills for each dive on their slate.

Open Water: Repeat Training Dives One and Two in open water applying the skills to the open water environment. Have students calculate a turn pressure based on thirds and write it on their slate. It is recommended students also list the skills for each dive on their slate.

Course Credit: Since the PADI Distinctive Specialty Tec Basics is actually a portion of the DSAT Tec Diver 1 course, Tec Basics may credit toward Tec Diver 1.

 

[theshred201]

DevonDiver--It appears that the Tec Basic course no longer exists, and has probably been worked into the Discover Tec and Tec Diver Level 1 courses. However, I think your post gives me a little bit of an idea of some of what Discover Tec/Tec level 1 courses entail, so thank you.

Yesterday I made my first two AOW dives. Both were Wreck Dives, the first on the HMCS Yukon and the second on the Ruby E. Both lasted 30 minutes. The first was to a maximum depth of 97 ft, and the second to 80. Water temp. on both was 50 F. Visibility was 35-40 ft (quite a bit better than any of the other dives I've made). All in all, they were definitely my two favorite dives I've done thus far. The boat entry and exit was nice as there was no need to carry gear from the staging area in the park down to the beach and back before and after every dive. The wrecks also had much more abundant life than what I've seen so far of La jolla shores, but I know that there is still a lot of la jolla shores that I haven't been to, both in location along the canyon and depth.

As for my critiques of my diving:
1. On the first dive, to be quite honest, I fell into simply letting my instructor lead the way, and I did very little navigation myself, resulting in me having essentially no idea where we actually were at times. On the second dive, I did much better at keeping track of where I was and knowing where I needed to go. However, in addition to paying more attention, I feel that it was also easier to do this on the second dive since it was a smaller wreck and rests right side up on the bottom as opposed to on it's side.
2. I did significantly better controlling my buoyancy, trim, and such on the second dive. Part of this I'm assigning to the fact that the only gear I used on the dives that I had used in the past were the mask, fins, and snorkel. I think by the second dive I'd become more comfortable with the gear, which helped a lot. However, this is not to say that I can't continue to improve it. A few notes I made--I think I was a bit overweighted. On my next dive I need to do a weight check to try to figure it out better. Also, since someone mentioned it earlier in this thread, I should work on keeping more horizontal while ascending on the line. While I managed sometimes today, being my first ascents on a line, I definitely can improve there.

All in all, great dives. I'm very happy with my new gear too. However, I do understand that I still have a lot to learn, and a lot to practice and improve.

Now for a couple questions:
GUE vs. UTD--Are there very many differences between them? I always see comparisons of Padi, Naui, Sdi, and Ssi, with the general consensus being that they are essentially the same. However, from an outside perspective, GUE and UTD seem relatively similar to each other but quite a bit different from the other 4 agencies I mentioned. So, are there any major differences between GUE and UTD? In particular, I'm looking into GUE Fundamentals and UTD Essentials. Also, what is the age limit for UTD Essentials? On their website, it says both 16 and 18 on the page about essentials. I haven't read nearly as much about UTD Essentials, but GUE Fundamentals sounds like a quite difficult course but one that truly helps divers improve their skills and their diving.

Thanks for the help thus far, and thanks in advance for future responses.

 

[theshred201]

Quick update, took my nitrox lecture yesterday, completed the test today. It will be graded today before a dive I'm making tonight (night dive portion of Advanced Scuba Diver course), which will be on EAN32 (technically the tanks have 32.6% O2 in them right now).
Still curious about UTD Vs. GUE (specifically Essentials and fundies) if anyone can help.

 

[Rhone Man]

Can't believe that someone still teaches an U/W hunting course. I am not sure what they would teach you that is of practical use. The most important lessons I learned about hunting lobster was how to swear loudly and vigorously through the regulator when one gets away from you.

 

[theshred201]

I think the U/W Hunting course goes into spear fishing stuff, but I suppose it depends who's teaching it as well.

The night dive tonight was great. Much more life than I've seen in La Jolla Shores in the day time. Lot's of small fish, crabs, several octopi ranging from small to somewhat large, a pretty big flounder, and lots of bat rays. Diving in La Jolla Cove tomorrow morning.

 

[theshred201]

Quick update since my last post. Made the La Jolla Cove dive I mentioned, did another night dive (saw a 2 and a half foot ish horn shark), and two dives today. Thus, my AOW is complete, as is my Nitrox course (got the Nitrox card today, should get Advanced Scuba Diver cards in a few days). The La Jolla Cove dive was pretty much a leisure dive, as in effect was the 2nd night dive as I'd already done one and was quite comfortable with night diving after the first one. Today, on the first dive we went over Helicopter turns, back kicks, and such, calculated SAC-Rates, and then had fun just diving. The second dive started with some navigation drills, followed by some fun time playing with a lift bag, followed by a while of leisure, and finally a weight check in 15 feet with 500 PSI. There, I found out that I was about 4 lbs. overweighted. One fun thing I did to practice my buoyancy control was to swim as closed to the sand bottom as I could without touching it (no more than a few inches), and try to remain at that distance for relatively long portions of the dive. Throughout the time while I did this, I only touched the bottom a few times (I believe 4), and never had any problems with floating away. However, sometimes I had to take huge breaths and such to try to stop myself from closing the 4 inch gap between me and the bottom due to things I've done. Hopefully, if I continue to do this it will shift from compensating for mistakes with huge changes in breath to truly controlling my buoyancy to the point that I don't NEED to make severe, temporary changes in my breathing (often only one breath) to account for mistakes.
So, now I'm up to determining what comes next. First off, I'm taking a one day free diving/spear fishing class next weekend if possible, if not later. For now, there will hopefully be lots of diving, and soon I may end up taking a Rescue Diver course, or the Naui Master Diver course, as I believe my LDS is doing one in the not too distant future. We'll see, but in general, my main goal for the mean time is just to get lots of diving under my belt. Thanks to all those who have helped.