A deceptively easy way to die

[bowlofpetunias]

My .02 worth. If showing that video makes the foolhardy think twice and saves a life ... that is a win. If showing that video makes a too timid diver think twice and decide scuba isn't for them and saves a life... that is a win. IMHO some people who are more nervous and prone to panic should NOT be certified anyway for their own safety and the safety of those who may be endangered by their diving.

To say that diving is safe or can be safe is a fallacy. We can make it safer but we are entering an environment we did not evolve to function in, relying on equipment that could fail and hoping Mother Nature doesn't decide to show her nasty side while we are doing it.

 

[TMHeimer]

My .02 worth. If showing that video makes the foolhardy think twice and saves a life ... that is a win. If showing that video makes a too timid diver think twice and decide scuba isn't for them and saves a life... that is a win. IMHO some people who are more nervous and prone to panic should NOT be certified anyway for their own safety and the safety of those who may be endangered by their diving.

To say that diving is safe or can be safe is a fallacy. We can make it safer but we are entering an environment we did not evolve to function in, relying on equipment that could fail and hoping Mother Nature doesn't decide to show her nasty side while we are doing it.

You said it better than me.

 

[pedro_rj]

My .02 worth. If showing that video makes the foolhardy think twice and saves a life ... that is a win. If showing that video makes a too timid diver think twice and decide scuba isn't for them and saves a life... that is a win. IMHO some people who are more nervous and prone to panic should NOT be certified anyway for their own safety and the safety of those who may be endangered by their diving.

To say that diving is safe or can be safe is a fallacy. We can make it safer but we are entering an environment we did not evolve to function in, relying on equipment that could fail and hoping Mother Nature doesn't decide to show her nasty side while we are doing it.

I get your point, but the exact same can be said of airplanes or even cars. I don't think I would feel any safer in an airplane after watching a gruesome video of a disaster with plenty of bodies all over.

I'm not making a point for softening hard truths (we're not meant to be underwater in the first place). I just believe from an educational point of view there are other options rather than scare tactics

 

[Storker]

I get your point, but the exact same can be said of airplanes or even cars. I don't think I would feel any safer in an airplane after watching a gruesome video of a disaster with plenty of bodies all over.

I'm not making a point for softening hard truths (we're not meant to be underwater in the first place). I just believe from an educational point of view there are other options rather than scare tactics

'Scare tactics' are used to persuade people from DUIing or smoking. I don't know if it has any effect, though. DUIing and smoking can be a somewhat relevant parallel while flying can't. A diver has (should have, at least) full control over where and how they dive, so they have every chance in the world to adjust their behavior to make their diving safer. Flying isn't a relevant parallel because "showing a gruesome video of a[n airline] disaster with plenty of bodies all over" can't accomplish anything. The passengers have exactly zero control over the flight, so they can't adjust their behavior to make flying safer no matter how scared they are.

 

[pedro_rj]

Valid point Storker. I withdraw flying and go with driving a car instead:

" To say that d[R]iving is safe or can be safe is a fallacy. We can make it safer but we are entering an environment [100km/h] we did not evolve to function in, relying on equipment that could fail and hoping Mother Nature doesn't decide to show her nasty side while we are doing it."

Or taking the elevator. Or doing a helicopter scenic flight. Or riding a motorbike. Or using a Jacuzzi.

Life is frail and there's a scary side to pretty much everything. The realisation of which doesn't really make us any safer, just scared

(And yes, I am becoming far more conservative in my diving based on what I learned here from people whose opinions and experiences I admire and respect. The one point I'm still at odds with is the "shock the newbs, save a life" assumption)

 

[oya]

It occurs to me this morning that for all the talk about not wanting to shock Grandma and Little Jimmy or the young couple going on their honeymoon, I don't think it's about wanting to scare the bejesus out of them.

I look at DEWTD as simply a tool, a counterpoint, an antidote to all the rest of the material presented in Open Water classes which is so sanitized of danger that it risks engendering reckless diving.

Every instructor gets one of those students once in a while: 20 something guy, wants to learn to spearfish as part of open water (or wants to bring his GoPro into the pool). Has an uncle that taught him how to dive when he was 8, but wants to be official now.

By the time that guy hits the point on the learning curve where he's on messageboards telling everyone how they should be diving (with about 25 dives under his belt) you put him in front of an nice, bright, inviting shipwreck full of wildlife and tell me what you think is going to happen.

Worse: put his girlfriend there, too. (Or flip the sexes, or make them the same sex. Whatever. Two people: one of them talented and learning fast, the other one hesitant, but trusting of their more able partner).

He signals, "Let's go in." Maybe she says no, so he signals more forcefully, she finally acquiesces, "but just a little."

Do they make it out alive?

In the scenario I just described: one did. The DM that shuttled them air to breathe through the porthole they were trapped behind while a rescue was coordinated was crippled for life by DCS.

Would he have done such a foolish thing if he had seen something that actually drove home the point "YOU CAN DIE" more forcefully than the current elearning by any agency, which just makes passing, hinting reference that there might be some mild danger if you don't monitor you pressure gauges or watch your depth?

Would the girlfriend have trusted her buddy (and died for it) as much if she had been shown just 10 minutes of a video that was as scary as the OW text book is benign?

Perhaps if the training materials were less engineered to make diving look like a perfectly safe pastime ("as long as you follow our standards," they are quick to add for liability reasons), then perhaps we wouldn't need something as frightening as DEWTD. But I don't think standards are changing any time soon, so show the video, I say.

If a thousand people are given the heebie-jeebies against one person not dying a terrified, agonizing death, it's worth it. If a hundred people don't get certified because diving seems dangerous: good! I don't trust they would be able to save themselves or their buddy if all hell broke loose.

Diving is not safe. Diving is not for everybody. This is the opposite of successful marketing, I realize, but I'm a safety geek, so what do I need from marketing.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I wonder how many of those saying this is too much to show new divers have watched the entire thing? All through the credits. I have always found it interesting that DSAT and PADI were co-producers on this film. Yet they do not make it part of the OW course. They participated in this as a service to the dive community after seeing a number of new OW divers getting killed in the caves.

Part of the purpose of this film was to show it to new divers going into cave country. They knew then that for some the temptation would be enough to override the instructors admonitions to stay out. That was back when students actually spent a meaningful amount of time in class.

Does anyone really think that a one or two weekend wonder is going to remember half of the risks that are talked about when the real focus is on all the fun, sun, excitement, travel, and trying to sell them on the idea of taking the DM class between pool sessions? Before they have even done their ow check outs?

There is nothing overtly graphic or shocking about the film. I like the way it goes to black in some cases. Like Hitchcock's "Psycho". The real graphics are seen in the viewers mind where they will make an impact.

You never see any of the knife blows hitting Janet Leigh. Yet people insist they do. Their mind naturally goes into that mode and creates the graphics.

As others have said - DIVING IS NOT INHERENTLY SAFE!

At any depth, breathing compressed air puts a person at greater risk of death. You can minimize the risks. To a degree. You can never eliminate them. To say that you can is a lie and imparts a false sense of security that can kill.

When I teach a new OW class the first thing I do is explain why they are even there for training. It's so they can do this without getting hurt or worse. I tell every diver in every class I have them for the first time as a student:

"Scuba is an extreme sport/activity. It can be fun, exciting, educational, relaxing, informative, and an adventure. If you stay within the limits of your training and experience it can be relatively safe. We are not, however, fish. We don't have gills. We can't breathe water. If you go too far outside the limits of your training and experience too fast, it can hurt or kill you in some very nasty and creative ways. In order to minimize the risk of that happening, because we can't eliminate it, this is how the training will go."

I then explain what the course contains. WHY it contains the things it does. WHY I teach it the way I do and what I expect out of the student.

It has never scared anyone off. In fact it has had the effect of making the student more dedicated and attentive. As well as much more willing to invest the 6-8 weeks of training the OW class I teach requires.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

How do you know what they recognized, maybe they just trusted the pro? No go without the pro, right? Seems like a dissonant theme in this thread, not without obvious irony.

If they recognized the inherent danger, then why did they go?

"Maybe they just trusted the pro?" Only one person is responsible for your safety and that is you! This is a maxim that I was taught in my OW class. If you weren't then your training was deficient. No ... you don't just put your trust in a "pro" ... many of those people have amazingly little experience. You DO know that you can become a divemaster with as little as 60 dives, and relatively little experience outside of a classroom ... right?

Do you REALLY just put your trust in a person with that much expertise? The DM who led those people in Italy to their deaths had zero ... ZERO ... overhead training. How much did he know about the potential dangers before he took them in there? Obviously, not enough ... or they wouldn't have died.

The irony ... or perhaps tragedy ... is that the majority of divers in the world DO put their trust in someone they never even met before they started their vacation. They know NOTHING about this person, and yet they "just trusted the pro". In scuba diving, that's a great way to end up dead.

Maybe instead you should learn to rely on your own sense of self-preservation. But that would require you to first develop one ... and that starts with the acknowledgement that you're in an environment where ignorance could kill you quick, and maybe you should do something to reduce your level of ignorance rather than relying on a total stranger to keep you safe.

Is it common in other fields to try to rattle fledglings?

In recreational endeavors where ignorance and inattention can kill you quick? Absolutely it's common. Try skydiving or rock climbing sometime. They'll certainly make you aware of how easy inattention can kill you, and why it's important to take responsibility for your own safety. Or do you suppose that a skydiving instructor will tell you that it's OK to just let a "pro" pack your chute for you?

Well, I don't read Italian, and much of that video was within sight of daylight, or in a group with lots of redundant lights and air, or under an air pocket. Hard to tell just how dangerous it was, or is all overhead bad, absent a cert?

Great example of how not understanding the dangers can lead to emphasis on the wrong things. Being within sight of daylight is all well and good until somebody kicks up the bottom to the point where you can't see the daylight anymore. Then ... which way to you go to get out?

What do you suppose killed those people?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[SeaHorse81]

I'll add another vote for showing this film to all OW students. I just rewatched it, given all the recent comments, and feel inclined to point out that this film is not about the dangers of diving, which would be a completely different project. This one is about the danger of diving in caves, without proper training, which seems to me to be an excellent lesson to drive home to newbies. It does so effectively and realistically. If anything, I wish they'd gone a little farther in noting that wrecks present similar hazards, since I'm guessing the average recreational diver is probably more likely to be tempted by wrecks than by caves.

Why wouldn't we want the newbies to get the message, "Here's something you may encounter that is a lot more dangerous than you might guess, so DON'T DO IT." Why wouldn't we want newbies to think twice before following a guide into an overhead environment "because we do this every day, with thousands of people every year, so don't worry."

I'm glad I've seen the film, personally, and glad I just watched it again.

p.s. -- If you want to use this film to make people aware of the risks of diving in a more general way, watch the ending credits with them and discuss the people who show up there who are dead now.

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . .
Scaring the life out of the students and new divers on the off chance they "may" venture into a cave or overhead environment, makes no sense to me. . . .

In some of the most popular places for diving in the world--I'm thinking specifically Florida, though for all I know the Italian coast qualifies too--it is more than an "off chance." Just about everyone in this region at some point in his diving career is in one of those spring basins and looks at the cavern area. In some of them, it isn't like there is a clearly defined portal with a clearly marked threshold beyond which one is in danger of the so-called "overhead environment"; rather, it's more like a continuum from the daylight to progressively darker and narrower, and it's common for divers to venture farther back to varying extents. It's all too easy to convince oneself it's okay to just peek in a few feet to have a look, since the daylight shines in, and all the other open-water divers seem to have done it ... and then feel confident to venture in just a few more feet, maybe turn on one's light, ... and then a few more feet ....