A "balanced rig" and how do you achieve it?

[MikeS]

Dan Gibson once bubbled...
Mike,

Now weigh your rig with tanks and full of gas. Use a fish scale. You may have to add weight to get it to sink.

Dan,

This threw me for a loop. I want to know the negative buoyancy not the actual weight. So I’m guessing that you weight the rig while it's in the water?

Mike

 

[padiscubapro]

Anotherpoint that no one else mentioned.. If you are going to dive with sling bottles you must account for them.. they will add negative buoyancy at the start but slings are usually alumini`um and get positive at the end of a dive.. most people dive with the smallest slings they need so they are very likely to go positive..

al 80s as slings could be over 3lbs positive each.
some oof the smaller tanks are just as bad..

 

[Dan Gibson]

Yes,

Weigh it in the water when the tanks are full. Subtract the gas weight and you know the buoyancy when empty. Use a fish scale.

MikeS once bubbled...


Dan,

This threw me for a loop. I want to know the negative buoyancy not the actual weight. So I’m guessing that you weight the rig while it's in the water?

Mike

 

[MikeFerrara]

I was under the impression that the term "balanced" refered more to where the weight was than how much! It goe without saying that you should be properly weighted.

I thought it meant that you had just enough ditchable weight or that you didn't need any to get to or stay at the surface. At least that's what they lead you to believe in the GUE book.

BTW if your neutral at 10 feet with a near empty tank is the plan to do an uncontrolled ascent from there to the surface if your low on gas. that would be mean that in a cave you would be plastered to the surface. I think you need to neutral at the surface with near empty tanks.

 

[Dan Gibson]

I thought balanced rig was one of the GI coined terms. It seems to have made its way into the GUE courses, although that isn't important. Trim refers to you attitude in the water. Placement of the weights affects trim. Some of the terms may mean one thing to one person and another to someone else. The important thing is to get it right. It makes diving much more enjoyable and safer.

I would also agree that you should really be neutral at the surface and not at 10 feet.

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
I was under the impression that the term "balanced" refered more to where the weight was than how much! It goe without saying that you should be properly weighted.

I thought it meant that you had just enough ditchable weight or that you didn't need any to get to or stay at the surface. At least that's what they lead you to believe in the GUE book.

BTW if your neutral at 10 feet with a near empty tank is the plan to do an uncontrolled ascent from there to the surface if your low on gas. that would be mean that in a cave you would be plastered to the surface. I think you need to neutral at the surface with near empty tanks.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Dan Gibson once bubbled...
I thought balanced rig was one of the GI coined terms. It seems to have made its way into the GUE courses, although that isn't important. Trim refers to you attitude in the water. Placement of the weights affects trim. Some of the terms may mean one thing to one person and another to someone else. The important thing is to get it right. It makes diving much more enjoyable and safer.

I would also agree that you should really be neutral at the surface and not at 10 feet.

Dan,

You misunderstood me I think. I know what trim is thanks anyway. LOL

When I refered to weight placement I meant ditchable vs. not-ditchable. sorry

In otherwords balanced rig = ...
Not over weighted
just enough ditchable weight to enable you to surface or stay at the surface without having so much ditchable as to turn you into a racket.

 

[Dan Gibson]

I guess I did misunderstand you. I thought you meant balanced as in the location of weights on the body relative to the cg. Yes, the GI explanation is exactly about ditchable weight and the ability to swim up the rig. Funny thing is balancing your weight forward and aft (i.e. trim) is part of the Fundamentals class.

It's amazing how this medium does not lend itself to an easily understandable explanation. That is what is nice about getting info from knowledgable instuctors in person.

MikeFerrara once bubbled...


Dan,

You misunderstood me I think. I know what trim is thanks anyway. LOL

When I refered to weight placement I meant ditchable vs. not-ditchable. sorry

In otherwords balanced rig = ...
Not over weighted
just enough ditchable weight to enable you to surface or stay at the surface without having so much ditchable as to turn you into a racket.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Dan Gibson once bubbled...


It's amazing how this medium does not lend itself to an easily understandable explanation.

Especially for someone like me who needs his hands to talk. LOL

 

[DIR Tec Diver]

Properly weighted = neutral buoyancy at safety stop or last deco stop depth (6 meters)

Properly trimmed = you hold perfect horizontal position in the water being pulled from neither side nor front/back

Everyone is different. You need to try what works best for you and how you feel most comfortable. We can talk all day about "what I do", but you definitely need to do it in the types of water you will dive in. If it is fresh water, go to a pool, in salt water, guess what??

It is fun, and you should not be bashed for asking like at the previous board. At least you are thinking. Only stupid people who suggest stupid things need to be prepared for a pounding.

have fun.

 

[MikeFerrara]

DIR Tec Diver once bubbled...
Properly weighted = neutral buoyancy at safety stop or last deco stop depth (6 meters)

Followed by an uncontrolled ascent from 6 meters to the surface ? Good plan!

You need to be able to achieve neutral buoyancy at any depth with a near empty tank in order to be able to control the ascent all the way to the surface.