A Backplate for Now and the Future? Golem Stream vs. DSS Kydex...

[CuzzA]

I understand both sides of the argument. Although, I find the argument to dive a balanced doubles rig without redundant buoyancy when diving wet a little weak. Constantly fining, hard work to control buoyancy while doing deco stops does not seem like the ideal scenario. I'm quite surprised by the overwhelming dislike for dual bladder wings for open water technical diving. But, I guess the consensus is in order to do a technical doubles dive you have to dive dry even if it's 95 degrees topside and 86 on the bottom.

 

[PfcAJ]

I understand both sides of the argument. Although, I find the argument to dive a balanced doubles rig without redundant buoyancy when diving wet a little weak. Constantly fining, hard work to control buoyancy while doing deco stops does not seem like the ideal scenario. I'm quite surprised by the overwhelming dislike for dual bladder wings for open water technical diving. But, I guess the consensus is in order to do a technical doubles dive you have to dive dry even if it's 95 degrees topside and 86 on the bottom.

Or just dive al80s.

With trimix they're damn near neutral even when full.

I'd do that in swimmie trunks and a single bladder wing.

 

[halocline]

It's the high negative buoyancy of big steel doubles that's the issue. It makes basic common sense to avoid being really negative without some sort of redundant buoyancy. There are different ideas about how to get redundant buoyancy.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Or some would say it is common sense to avoid diving a rig so negative that you need redundant bouyancy at all.

 

[tbone1004]

Or some would say it is common sense to avoid diving a rig so negative that you need redundant bouyancy at all.

since we're in technical diving we'll be able to open this can of worms, but in technical diving, especially in warm water areas, the ability to dive a balanced rig is not always a choice that you get to make.... There's just too much stuff that you have to bring with you, usually gas. In my drysuit, with LP121's, which are quite floaty, I still don't need any lead and am overweight. I can't drop any weight, and the only other thing to do is put more undergarments on to get more positive, but then I'm too hot which is bad. Go farther south where the water is warmer than 72* and you have to do deep and/or long dives with big tanks and the problem gets worse. Trimix doesn't change the buoyancy characteristics of a rig in terms of ballast that you need, but it does make you less offensively negative in the beginning of the dive

 

[CuzzA]

Or just dive al80s.

With trimix they're damn near neutral even when full.

I'd do that in swimmie trunks and a single bladder wing.

No doubt, but at that point wouldn't a single big steel (maybe a H valve) and a couple 40's make more sense than double 80's and a 40, all things being equal with contingencies met in the dive plan?

How about double 72's? Would you dive those without redundant buoyancy?

 

[CuzzA]

since we're in technical diving we'll be able to open this can of worms, but in technical diving, especially in warm water areas, the ability to dive a balanced rig is not always a choice that you get to make.... There's just too much stuff that you have to bring with you, usually gas. In my drysuit, with LP121's, which are quite floaty, I still don't need any lead and am overweight. I can't drop any weight, and the only other thing to do is put more undergarments on to get more positive, but then I'm too hot which is bad. Go farther south where the water is warmer than 72* and you have to do deep and/or long dives with big tanks and the problem gets worse. Trimix doesn't change the buoyancy characteristics of a rig in terms of ballast that you need, but it does make you less offensively negative in the beginning of the dive

So, in that scenario and given typical hot as hell temps in the Gulf (Air = 90's, Water = High 80's; Even Deep), and diving wet, what would you do?

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Well I am just parroting things I read on the internet and since I don't dive doubles and have no technical training, I will try to bow out now. I just think big double steels and a stage bottle may not be best for someone just getting their feet wet with spearing past recreational depths. I personally try to apply as many of the DIR ideas that I find practical.​

And double steel 70 are heavier than a big single and if your bail out is your redundancy, then you might skip the h valve. They are heavier but are less negative in the water than a single 149. The only doubles I have dove were 70 and that was mostly when I was a teenager in the 70s. Did a few dives in the 90s and said the hell with it and got some single big steels.

 

[tbone1004]

So, in that scenario and given typical hot as hell temps in the Gulf (Air = 90's, Water = High 80's; Even Deep), and diving wet, what would you do?

depends on what I was doing. If I was blue water diving, then 80's with stage bottles. If there was a hard floor, then I would dive whatever tanks that I needed and use a lift bag. If I lost buoyancy, it isn't 100% critical that I regain it immediately because there is a hard floor that is within my depth limits. That said, there is also a difference in a balanced rig and one you can kick up. I won't dive a rig that I can't kick up, but I have strong legs and thankfully big feet which means big fins, so I can kick up full double 104's in a 5mm, albeit with some exertion.

I dive double 72's in a 5mm with no redundancy all the time, same with my PST120's, both with Kydex plates.

 

[CuzzA]

Well I am just parroting things I read on the internet and since I don't dive doubles and have no technical training, I will try to bow out now. I just think big double steels and a stage bottle may not be best for someone just getting their feet wet with spearing past recreational depths. I personally try to apply as many of the DIR ideas that I find practical.​

And double steel 70 are heavier than a big single and if your bail out is your redundancy, then you might skip the h valve. They are heavier but are less negative in the water than a single 149. The only doubles I have dove were 70 and that was mostly when I was a teenager in the 70s. Did a few dives in the 90s and said the hell with it and got some single big steels.

Nah, I appreciate your insight. Not having tech training doesn't mean you don't know what you're talking about. Aside from that you know my activities and area well and have a hell of a lot more experience than me.