85 ft Dive on 13 ft Pony Almost Ends Badly

[Beau640]

Yeah, because the vast majorly of divers on these forums are technical divers with hundreds of dives under their belt. /sarcasm

Consider the audience of people that actually read these posts. In what world is it good advice to recommend to the majority of divers that a 13 ft.³ bottle is good for deep diving which is what was stated above. People are going to come and read this and go to their dive shop and just buy a 13 ft.³ bottle and think that's good enough for all the diving that they do.

Most divers are not experienced technical divers. Most divers are not technical divers in general which make up only a very small percentage of the diving population. Most divers don't care about or don't know how to gas plan. And what you said above that people shouldn't be going deep without the experience might be true but in reality is not what actually happens.

We can all sit back and say people should get this experience or people should know how to do something but in reality that's not what the general diving population does. The active vocal users on this forum do not represent the general diving population. Things being posted on this website are read by a lot of people, and you have to be careful what you recommend to someone. You don't want someone reading this and then going out to buy a 13 ft.³ bottle because someone on here said that's what you should take and would be appropriate for deep diving, and then end up getting hurt.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Yeah, because the vast majorly of divers on these forums are technical divers with hundreds of dives under their belt. /sarcasm

Consider the audience of people that actually read these posts. In what world is it good advice to recommend to the majority of divers that a13 ft.³ bottle is good for deep diving which is what was stated above. People are going to come and read this and go to their dive shop and just buy a 13 ft.³ bottle and think that's good enough for all the diving that they do.

Most divers are not experienced technical divers. Most divers are not technical divers in general which make up only a very small percentage of the diving population. Most divers don't care about or don't know how to gas plan. And what you said above that people shouldn't be going deep without the experience might be true but in reality is not what actually happens.

We can all sit back and say people should get this experience or people should know how to do something but in reality that's not what the general diving population does. The active vocal users on this forum do not represent the general diving population. Things being posted on this website are read by a lot of people and you have to be careful what you recommend to someone. You don't want someone reading this and then going out to buy a 13 ft.³ bottle because someone on here said that's what you should take And is appropriate for deep diving and then end up getting hurt.

I am more worried about people not taking redundancy rather than people selecting a pony bottle that is so small that their options are limited in a true emergency.

Everyone needs to do the math and there is no avoiding making assumptions about SAC, max depth, time at depth, ascent rate, safety stop and any extra buffer capacity. If a diver can't do this (with the help of spreadsheets and other computational aids) then they probably shouldn't be diving past 30 or 40 feet, in my opinion.

I'm not making any specific recommendations other than "do the math" for yourself.

 

[scubadada]

Yeah, because the vast majorly of divers on these forums are technical divers with hundreds of dives under their belt. /sarcasm

Consider the audience of people that actually read these posts. In what world is it good advice to recommend to the majority of divers that a13 ft.³ bottle is good for deep diving which is what was stated above. People are going to come and read this and go to their dive shop and just buy a 13 ft.³ bottle and think that's good enough for all the diving that they do.

Most divers are not experienced technical divers. Most divers are not technical divers in general which make up only a very small percentage of the diving population. Most divers don't care about or don't know how to gas plan. And what you said above that people shouldn't be going deep without the experience might be true but in reality is not what actually happens.

We can all sit back and say people should get this experience or people should know how to do something but in reality that's not what the general diving population does. The active vocal users on this forum do not represent the general diving population. Things being posted on this website are read by a lot of people and you have to be careful what you recommend to someone. You don't want someone reading this and then going out to buy a 13 ft.³ bottle because someone on here said that's what you should take And is appropriate for deep diving and then end up getting hurt.

You completely missed the gist of this thread, nothing to do with choice of pony, go back and read

 

[Altamira]

Beau 640,
I am not a tech diver, but I hardly consider DD's attempt to retrieve a weight belt with a 13 CF pony to be in the same category as a planned deep dive. DD is a diver with a lot of experience, and knows very well what he was doing, and that he had sufficient gas to get the job done. He did, as evidenced by the fact he found the belt and got back to the surface without incident, and I certainly did not get the impression he was encouraging others to do what he was able to do. His problem came about because he surfaced without a smb, something he will likely remember next time, and he and his boat captain did not have a firm understanding that the boat was to stay with him. As a result, instead of his boat being there, another boat almost ran over him. Assumptions were made that turned out to be incorrect, and luckily he did not have to pay a severe price for that error.
P.S. I don't think any diver, even a newbie would think it was OK to use a 13 CF tank instead of a more standard size tank for a normal dive at that depth.

 

[rongoodman]

Yeah, because the vast majorly of divers on these forums are technical divers with hundreds of dives under their belt. /sarcasm

Why do you think anything on this thread has to do with technical diving?

 

[Johnoly]

.. His problem came about because he surfaced without a smb, something he will likely remember next time.

I doubt it, Those freedivers don't wear nothin but a belt, a smile and some long arse fins.

... I don't think any diver, even a newbie would think it was OK to use a 13 CF tank instead of a more standard size tank for a normal dive at that depth.

It was a bounce dive.

 

[Coztick]

Yet another close call. Glad to hear your fine! We would miss your wisdom and sense of humor!

+1 for a marker but you thought you had a boat!
Will you take a spool and smb next time? That's the big question...
What do I need to take with on any particular dive. Too many stories here not to see the value of being seen. I take a dsmb and 2 lights and a 13 cu ft pony...hijack...

But now let's talk about going even deeper. 99 ft on a deep dive. You're only going to have ~5 minutes of gas (1 cuft per minute x 4atm = 4 cuft/min. 3 minute to ascend to safety stop so 12 cuft used. safety stop gas use ~0.5cuft / minute. 1cuft remaning/0.5cuft used per minute at stop= 2 minutes of gas at 15ft + 3 minute used at ascent = 5 minutes total). Not enough to ascend slowly and complete a safety stop. You're going to suck that tank dry. And even with rough calculations and assuming you're going to have more air than this, you still barely have enough and are running the risk of running out.

I carry a 13 with the understanding that, under extreme recreational dives like a swimthrough at 120ft with a group, I may have to cut a safety stop a little short. I'm good with that. I have not had a deco obligation yet so the stop is optional.
It's my limited understanding that the accent rate is the most important factor for safety. I simply plan to surface as slowly as possible as dictated by my SPG. Plenty of time to shoot a smb and no reason to be breathing at such a ridiculous rate. Even 0.7cu ft (19.8 L) per min. at rest is chronic hyperventilation, but that's another thread...
I like that it fits in the carryon with my regs, mask, lights and gopro 2. I could put up with renting the rest.

 

[gcarter]

It's my limited understanding that the accent rate is the most important factor for safety. I simply plan to surface as slowly as possible as dictated by my SPG. Plenty of time to shoot a smb and no reason to be breathing at such a ridiculous rate. Even 0.7cu ft (19.8 L) per min. at rest is chronic hyperventilation, but that's another thread...

Aren't you the star. Thank you for the blessing of your wisdom.

 

[Coztick]

I'll bite..
WTF?

 

[gcarter]

I'll bite..
WTF?

Maybe I should have highlighted it for you...

"Even 0.7cu ft (19.8 L) per min. at rest is chronic hyperventilation"