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Another failed suicide attempt.

Also lucky.

Pointless. Guinness should be ashamed of themselves.


Funny how everyone is bashing this women going on a dive but no one says this about Dr. Richard Harris or Dr. Craig Challen and Dr. Simon Mitchell who was part of there support team who basically went to the exact same depth. 245m in there Pearse Resurgence cave exploration project.

And they did this dive little over 2 years ago, never heard a single negative comment about it. Lots of supportive comments.

 
I'm not telling anyone to do (or not do) anything. I'm just saying that there are many arguments about risk taking in climbing, which was brought up in a previous post. I should have been clearer in that I'm not the one calling risks in sport pointless, but that is one side of the argument.
Fair enough. After all, there is 'risk' taking and then there is 'foolish risk' taking. A case in point of the later is the so-called Dr Deep. The former may be high altitude solo moutaneering / some of the big Wakulla pushes for instance.
 
Funny how everyone is bashing this women going on a dive but no one says this about Dr. Richard Harris or Dr. Craig Challen and Dr. Simon Mitchell who was part of there support team who basically went to the exact same depth. 245m in there Pearse Resurgence cave exploration project.

And they did this dive 2 years ago, never heard a single negative comment about it. Lots of supportive comments.

*their

Maybe... cave EXPLORATION vs dropping down a line and coming back up, with the only goal of hitting a certain depth?

I also don't see the men you mentioned pursuing or attempting to attain any "record".

Edit to add : They also have significant infrastructure (habitats, stages etc) in place to support those dives.
 
Funny how everyone is bashing this women going on a dive but no one says this about Dr. Richard Harris or Dr. Craig Challen and Dr. Simon Mitchell who was part of there support team who basically went to the exact same depth. 245m in there Pearse Resurgence cave exploration project.

And they did this dive little over 2 years ago, never heard a single negative comment about it. Lots of supportive comments.
Argh yes, but they were doing exploration, which many would class / regard as a worthy goal / enterprise, as opposed to really learning nothing new on deep bounce dive to set a record. Two different beasts as it were. Just saying.
 
Dave Shaws death is not all about gas density. Have you ever seen a photo of his scrubber post dive? It was packed and assembled incorrectly to begin with.

I have not, but I'd certainly be interested in learning more if there is a link with any of the details.
 
I have not, but I'd certainly be interested in learning more if there is a link with any of the details.
Pardon delay in reply. I don't think the photos or intricate details were ever published on a web site, although I could be wrong on that. However, because I was an instructor / instructor trainer on the same kind of rig (a 'Biomarine' Mk15.5) I was sent some of the photos by one of the people, a friend of mine, who helped authorities 'investigate' his rig post dive. Unfortunately I now no longer have them as that was in a galaxy far far away and a long time ago (or so it seems now anyway). o_O

But, at the risk of hijacking this thread (and on that note, IIRC there used to be a thread on the accident, but I cant locate it. If a MOD should care to, then may I suggest they move the relevant posts from this thread there? Or not. Whatever.) I'll post some of the photos I made up to illustrate the point to students, etc.

With that said, Dave’s dive was ‘big’ enough to begin with, without making it bigger / harder that necessary. How did he, or someone do that? Well by;

1) No plastic spacer / top yellow foam was right on gas flow holes. That is, he left the white ‘plastic’ spacer out (red arrow points toward it in photo of the 15.5 below, and photo below that shows the wrong way – red cross - and the right way to assemble top pad for 15.5 scrubber) so that the foam pressed directly down on the gas flow holes, hence increasing WOB. Strike 1.

2) The scrubber was not filled properly to the rim as it should be in a 15.5, that is there was about a ¼ inch / 7mm gap down from the rim to where the top of his sorb was (see red line in bottom set of images). He then placed the grey foam insert in there. But the 15.5 scrubber is meant to be filled all the way to the very rim, and the gray foam insert should sit on top of that (or more factually, placed in the lid, and the lid screwed down on top of the sorb). Then when the canister lid is screwed down that foam compresses to help hold the sorb in place. (See top image photo at bottom). How he had it, it did not compress down onto the sorb, so increased the possibility for breakthrough. Strike 2.

Now the above are facts, as is the first sentence below, the rest is my opinion from personal experience. :coffee:

3) He used the small grain / granular sorb (photos below show large grain sorb). Now while this may(?) have a longer duration dive life than the larger grain sorb, and supposedly extracts C02 slightly better, it adds to the WOB also in this rig (as I can testify), so IMO he would have been better off on a dive like this to go - given that gas density had to be considered - with the larger grain sorb, (as I, and others on 15.5’s regularly got 12 hours from a fill, so still fine for his dive, IIRC). Strike 3.

So, as you can probably envisage, all the above increased his WOB / worked against him, which added to the gas density issue could have…………………………...well, like I said, a big dive just got bigger / harder.
 

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Kay Dee - Much thanks for the write up, from digging around, the most I could find was a 2013 post from Doppler stating the scrubber was packed wrong, and a dead link to divernet.com that mentions said investigation (Dave Shaw died from carbon dioxide black-out). So I don't think those details are well known, certainly not at the level of detail you provided.

If we want to attempt to pull this back on topic, perhaps we can say that the risk profile of these dives requires nothing short of absolute perfection.
 
Funny how everyone is bashing this women going on a dive but no one says this about Dr. Richard Harris or Dr. Craig Challen and Dr. Simon Mitchell who was part of there support team who basically went to the exact same depth. 245m in there Pearse Resurgence cave exploration project.

And they did this dive little over 2 years ago, never heard a single negative comment about it. Lots of supportive comments.



It wasn't just to set a record, they where exploring a cave. There is a difference in motivation. Not to mention doing it on OC vs CC...
 
It wasn't just to set a record, they where exploring a cave. There is a difference in motivation. Not to mention doing it on OC vs CC...
Much deeper on CC and you need a fan to blow gas around the loop. For better or worse OC is largely your only option because of gas density.
 

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