7' Hose Questions (not routing)

[James R]

2. I have seen people diving with a 7’ hoses, but there is no strain relief. Let’s say things turn to crap and your sharing buddy gets pulled away. The entire strain is on that brass 3/8" fitting and your first stage. Shouldn’t there be a strain relief on a long hose so it doesn't break the fitting? Hoses are pretty strong in tensile but the fitting is not when pressure is applied at an angle.

I was taught as the receiver to hold the 7' hose with my right hand, not to just hold it with my mouth and hope for the best. This prevents the reg from being ripped out of my mouth & would, I guess, be a strain relief. I agree that it'd be a heck of a lot easier to rip the reg out of my mouth than break the hose fitting/reg/etc regardless of the angle.

 

[lowviz]

The picture depicted there with the lead diver swimming slightly below the second diver works on the assumption that the passage is sufficiently high to allow that position. That's not the only position possible for a single file exit.

True enough. However, that picture also shows that it can be done with a 5' hose. A 7' is easier (at least for me) but I assume some form of contact must be maintained for any single file exit. My experience is that proper contact pretty much eliminates getting an unexpected kick and also removes the need for the lead diver to hold the donor's reg in his mouth. However, it does slow everything down enough to mess with gas management estimates.

 

[Akimbo]

…Mine don't. Proper hose routing is part of configuring gear properly. If you feel better adding a strain relief, it's your gear so do as you wish. I just don't see it as big enough an issue to matter. My fittings are protected enough that I'm not worried about hitting them and shearing it off and I just dont see enough strain being put on it from an air share to cause a problem...

Fair enough. My concern about strain is in swift currents. Picture the trailing/donor diver getting hung up while the lead diver gets sucked out or swept off the downline. The strongest currents I have ever been in were through sub hatches and pipelines. The force could easily snap a 3/16" brass hose fitting, let alone break your grip on someone’s leg.

To illustrate the difference in our perspective, we usually put the oxygen on a small boat so we could drift and avoid the “flag in a gale” work load during stops — which also eliminated all the jerking on an anchor line. All things considered, it strikes me that 7' hoses don’t make sense unless/until I’m in confined hard-overhead conditions with a buddy (like almost never). A long loop of dangling hose while heading up the line doesn’t thrill me, especially in dark swift water. Ditto for wrapping slack around my neck.

I have been on three OOG/octo sharing dives, one as the parasite. Our practice was the parasite was responsible for holding onto the donor, preferably keeping eye contact, until getting to the backup bottles or oxygen hose on the downline. For these conditions, we would probably be better off lending the octo with an integrated strain relief/buddy-line on a shorter hose that the parasite could snap into their harness. That would free up another hand and reduce the stress factor.

On one project both divers snapped into a 6" stainless ring around the downline when leaving and returning to the line. We had a 200 Lb lift bag at ~15' so it stayed pretty taut and made it easy to slide the ring. It also isolated the jerking from the O2 Zodiac tied off to a cherry buoy above the bag. We began to realize how much we liked the technique when one team forgot to snap the ring off to the lift bag and let if fall to the bottom. Let’s just say the next team was not pleased.

 

[Den7]

...
S-drills are an important part of the pre-dive procedure to make sure the hose is routed properly and not caught on something. An air share emergency is not the time to figure out that the hose is hung up or routed improperly and won't deploy. That's one of the beautiful things about wrapping the hose, it deploys and stows easily.

I thought that cave divers might be the right people to ask about hose (octopus) routing. I dive regularly (not cave that is) and have created my own system of having the octopus and its hose completely tucked in to my gear so that it doesn't stick out and drag / float along all around me at all and at the same time it is very easily released if need may be. I was wondering if there are any special cave diving accessories (not just standard octopus holders) that would help wrapping, deploying, and stowing your octopus so that the longer hose wouldn't stick out at all and would have a real quick release in case of emergency with a possibility to attach it back easily to its initial no-sticking-out position? '(just bend and push in to a d-ring is too trivial and won't work )

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I thought that cave divers might be the right people to ask about hose (octopus) routing. I dive regularly (not cave that is) and have created my own system of having the octopus and its hose completely tucked in to my gear so that it doesn't stick out and drag / float along all around me at all and at the same time it is very easily released if need may be. I was wondering if there are any special cave diving accessories (not just standard octopus holders) that would help wrapping, deploying, and stowing your octopus so that the longer hose wouldn't stick out at all and would have a real quick release in case of emergency with a possibility to attach it back easily to its initial no-sticking-out position? '(just bend and push in to a d-ring is too trivial and won't work )

I think I understand what you are asking. This is with a conventional octo I'm guessing. the answer is kinda no. I've seen divers try stuffing it into the bc, excess hose into a pocket, under the cummerbund, etc and while it looks like it is more streamlined it also creates more problems when the hose gets hung up, tangled, yanks the cummerbund crooked, etc. The cleanest set up so far that provides the best possible benefits all the way around for MY STYLES of diving, including teaching, is the looped long hose and bungeed octo.

Sorry for the hijack.

 

[Cave Diver]

All things considered, it strikes me that 7' hoses don’t make sense unless/until I’m in confined hard-overhead conditions with a buddy (like almost never). A long loop of dangling hose while heading up the line doesn’t thrill me, especially in dark swift water. Ditto for wrapping slack around my neck.

Have you tried one? If not, I think it would clear up a lot of the misconception for you. There is no long loop of line hanging loose. The hose routes down my right side, under my canister light then diagonally from my right hip crossing over to the left side of my chest. It goes behind my neck from left to right and then around to my mouth. It's not actually looped around your neck. It simply passes behind the back of your neck, not much different than a standard regulator configuration, except it's a bit closer to you.

When deploying it, initially you're only deploying the length across the front of your chest. The part on your can light is still tucked in, so there's not a lot of hose hanging loose. If you need more hose, you reach down with your right hand and pull it free.

When I dive single tank, OW setups without a can light, I tuck a small loop (the same amount that would go under my can light) into my right side waist harness and it works just fine.

I've tried various methods, including "stuffing" or "bungy" the long hose and none worked as well IMO.

 

[Cave Diver]

I thought that cave divers might be the right people to ask about hose (octopus) routing. I dive regularly (not cave that is) and have created my own system of having the octopus and its hose completely tucked in to my gear so that it doesn't stick out and drag / float along all around me at all and at the same time it is very easily released if need may be. I was wondering if there are any special cave diving accessories (not just standard octopus holders) that would help wrapping, deploying, and stowing your octopus so that the longer hose wouldn't stick out at all and would have a real quick release in case of emergency with a possibility to attach it back easily to its initial no-sticking-out position? '(just bend and push in to a d-ring is too trivial and won't work )

Most of us bungy the octo (or backup reg) under our chin. There are several ways to accomplish this, depending on your preference. Issues with stuffing an octo, is if it starts to free flow, can you easily get to it to stop it? If you need to deploy it can you find it and get it to an OOA diver quickly? If you're in tight quarters (shouldnt be an issue for an OW diver) do you have room to dig it out?

Having the octo bungied under the neck allows me to access it without even using my hands. I can tuck my head to my chin and grab it with only my mouth if need be. If an OOA diver "mugs" me from behind and takes my primary from my mouth, I instantly know where my back up is. If my reg gets knocked out of my mouth somehow, same thing, it's right there.

There are a variety of ways to approach the primary and backup question for OW and overhead environment divers alike. Just depends on what your goals and preferences are.

 

[Akimbo]

Have you tried one? If not, I think it would clear up a lot of the misconception for you. There is no long loop of line hanging loose...

Maybe I am missing something? What’s the purpose of a 7' hose in the first place? The value escapes me if I’m not exiting a confined space with another diver.

I sure don’t want somebody more than arm’s-length with my second stage unless we can’t get through the same hole. I absolutely want eyeball-to-eyeball contact, visibility allowing, when the situation has deteriorated to the point of sucking off the other’s bottles.

 

[lowviz]

Maybe I am missing something? What’s the purpose of a 7' hose in the first place? The value escapes me if I’m not exiting a confined space with another diver....//......

I would have to agree. When I dive with PSD's my "buddy" is the backup diver on the surface and my tender has a direct line to me. I wouldn't be so stupid as to show up with a 7' hose.

...//.....I sure don’t want somebody more than arm’s-length with my second stage unless we can’t get through the same hole. I absolutely want eyeball-to-eyeball contact, visibility allowing, when the situation has deteriorated to the point of sucking off the other’s bottles.

Direct vertical exit. Again, have to agree with the merits of a face-to-face. (But I still like the speed of donating your primary.)

-A 7' hose is all about a confined emergency exit. In that situation, I want one bad.

 

[Cave Diver]

Maybe I am missing something? What’s the purpose of a 7' hose in the first place? The value escapes me if I’m not exiting a confined space with another diver.

I sure don’t want somebody more than arm’s-length with my second stage unless we can’t get through the same hole. I absolutely want eyeball-to-eyeball contact, visibility allowing, when the situation has deteriorated to the point of sucking off the other’s bottles.

The purpose for a 7' hose was to allow single file exit from a restricted environment.

Many of us see value for it in OW as well. If I need to have someone closer to me during an air sharing ascent, I don't have to undo the full length of hose, but I always have the option to. If I need to control them I can still grab their harness strap.

Air sharing is not always a result of an OOG situation. I had a friend who got bad air recently. When they got to depth they started feeling badly and noticed a bad taste. They made a calm ascent on their own, but they could have shared air with someone on a long hose with good air while making the ascent if needed.

If I'm doing a submarine dive with someone, I expect those people to have solid skills. If they bumped into something and accidentally sheared off a hose causing a sudden gas loss and a subsequent gas sharing experience, I don't need to be eyeball to eyeball with them on ascent. Having the freedom to move away from each other a bit and put a bit of distance, especially if we're having to hang on a line is beneficial. I don't want to hang on in stiff current with my buddy right on top of me. I'd rather them be able to be a bit above or below me while we're playing flagpole.

Diving with a long hose in OW isn't a necessity, it's convenience. But doing so keeps my gear the same, my configuration the same and my responses the same no matter what type of diving I'm doing. It doesnt add any extra complexity or problems to have it and it brings the benefits already mentioned. To me, its one of those "I'd rather have it and never need it, than need it and not have it" things.