(5/01/05) Diver missing in Florida

[Tom Winters]

Dive captains aboard six pac vessels are required to have dive master ratings. This is not because of Coast Guard regulations, but to meet insurance requirements. Six pac dive vessels also need to carry certain emergency equipment, some mandated by the Coast Guard, some the insurance carrier.
To earn a Capt. lic. one must pass a Coast Guard exam which includes deck safety and use of safety equipment.

Dive captains required to be dive masters is a new one on me; any mandated emergency equipment is common to all uninspected vessels; an underwriter might require additional equipment - typically an O2 kit. AED's will probably get added at some point - anything else come to mind?; a USCG license requires a whole barrel of hoops to jump through. My 100-ton Master's exam in 1989 took 8 solid hours to complete. With the other stuff now and the unreal jams in the Regional Exam Centers, it seems like most people use a captain's licensing course center to get their license. Appointments in the Miami office have taken as long as 6 months. That part of being a captain - dealing with the licensing bureaucracy - is sheer hell.

 

[pilot fish]

bold added

Especially at a site like the grove? How do you figure?
The SG is an ADVANCED site. If you want to successfully dive it, you had better be an ADVANCED diver - not only holding an advanced/deep certification from any agency, but actually having advanced skills and relevant (deep, swift current, etc.) vast experience. If not, then this dive is beyond your training, skills, and experience, and you should not do it. Like someone else has said, if you require assistance beyond what you and your buddy can provide to yourselves and each other, you should not be on this dive.

Can you imagine if there were rescue divers waiting nearby the Grove? It could give courage to all kinds of divers who are not ready to dive her. Why do you think some places with cave diving like Ginny Springs do not allow non-cavern/cave-certified divers to use lights in their system? It helps to keep unqualified divers out of trouble by not giving them a false sense of security. "I can see in there = I'll be ok".

There are many wrecks in the Great Lakes here in Canada that have a similar reputation to the SG - many are tech dives, but one that is a little more accessible is the Arabia. The Arabia appears to take lives most years and is very challenging (deep (115 F), cold (38 F), current, low to mediocre vis). Two dive shops that go to this site are extremely cautious about checking c-cards, going through your log books, and watching your other dives before agreeing to let you do this one. Two years ago, they must have spent 15 minutes reading my entire log book before they said that I could do it. I finally did it last summer, and my buddy and I followed every recommendation given to us. We had a redundant air supply and planned the dive and dove the plan meticulously. The dive went off beautifully, but we were prepared no matter what - and accepted the risk. It never occurred to me to think of the captain as a safety net. I can assure you that around here, if you have been cleared to do a dive, you are on your own. I don't know of any guided tours around here.

Are the SG dive charters cautious about who they allow to dive the Grove?

You raise good points. Yes, I think if people with just OW expereince knew that a diver was standing by to fetch them if they got into trouble that might tempt them to dive over their head. The way to avoid that is for Dive Op's to do what you suggest, look at logs and require AOW to dive that site. They do that now, or most do that now. I did 3 dives on the S Grove as just an OW diver but thety looked at my logs to see my depths and if I had done drift dives before etc. I was cleared to dive it and did.

 

[pilot fish]

Dive captains required to be dive masters is a new one on me; any mandated emergency equipment is common to all uninspected vessels; an underwriter might require additional equipment - typically an O2 kit. AED's will probably get added at some point - anything else come to mind?; a USCG license requires a whole barrel of hoops to jump through. My 100-ton Master's exam in 1989 took 8 solid hours to complete. With the other stuff now and the unreal jams in the Regional Exam Centers, it seems like most people use a captain's licensing course center to get their license. Appointments in the Miami office have taken as long as 6 months. That part of being a captain - dealing with the licensing bureaucracy - is sheer hell.

Tom, you'd be a good person to ask this question: why do Dive Ops, like in the Upper Keys, require that a DM be onboard a dive boat? It would seem that rescue, some form of it, is implied by their presence?

 

[The Kraken]

Oh, come on Kraken, I mean Snapping Turtle. You are sooooooooooooooooooooo obvious. :11ztongue

Close, but not qiute . . . sorry to disappoint you.

ST and I work together, dive together, socialize together and share computer resources together.

Sometimes I agree with him, sometimes I don't.

In this matter I think I'm starting to gravitate to his position.

the K

 

[pilot fish]

Close, but not qiute . . . sorry to disappoint you.

ST and I work together, dive together, socialize together and share computer resources together.

Sometimes I agree with him, sometimes I don't.

In this matter I think I'm starting to gravitate to his position.

the K

 

[pilot fish]

Any further contribution in this thread by me would constitute severe repetition so I will step aside an allow some fresh voices to be heard.

 

[dive]

Any further contribution in this thread by me would constitute severe repetition so I will step aside an allow some fresh voices to be heard.

 

[Island Dog]

Pilot Fish...The DM you refer to on certified vessels is technically not a DM. USCG Regs specify the Master's rating and the number of deckhands required to operate a specific vessel. Many dive operators utilize DM's or above as their "deck hands" but it is not required or universal.

 

[String]

Tell you all what:

If you haven't dived in the Keys, and you haven't dived on several different ops in the Keys, then why don't you all:

1. Come on down and dive the Grove
2. Observe the operations in action

Im intending to do just that. (OK in reality ive had this trip booked for 14 months so cant claim its out of interest in this thread im doing it


Tom Winters Interesting regarding the regulations. The way it works here is sort of 2 tier. To commercially operate a vessel you need to have maritime qualifications (RYA commercial or whatever, vessel has to comply to the relevent SOLAS directives etc) and other standards and all the safety training that goes with that. In addition to this any sub niche its used for if its commercial (ie money is made from operation) then the health and safety exec comes into play. These demand risk assessments, incident response plans and so on tailored to the work in question. Obviously for a dive boat that would involve rescue procedures and so on. The skipper does NOT have to hold any diving qualification (and in fact a lot dont) but they do have to satisfy the HSE on their risk assessments and response plans. If i read your post right the USA has a system equivalent to the first (ie coastguard/vessel operation) but no system equivalent to the second (speicific task incident plans etc) ?

 

[DiveGolfSki]

Any further contribution in this thread by me would constitute severe repetition so I will step aside an allow some fresh voices to be heard.

:11: Ditto