(5/01/05) Diver missing in Florida

[dive]

See their website. NItrox tanks (30%) available for rent.

http://www.itsadive.com/Dive_Spiegel_Grove.htm

He was probably using the 30% for a longer bottom time. I was just trying to figure out where you got 100 ft. max depth for 30%.

 

[baitedstorm]

Does anyone know the late doctor's diving experience and level or certification?

I was "told" he had his Rescue Certification.

 

[pilot fish]

I was "told" he had his Rescue Certification.

That makes all this more puzzling. Pure speculation, a diver with an Advanced rating, nitrox and Rescue Diver most probably is not renting gear. Being a rescue Diver you'd think dropping weights is first order, unless he's in a medical emergency or full blown panic. Any word on where his buddy was?

 

[DiveGolfSki]

30% only has a po2 of 1.48 at 130 ft so it should not have a bearing on it but you never know.

I agree, it should not have a bearing on it. He shouldn't have been narced (less nitro) but one martini ... two martini affects everyone differently. We'll have to just wait for the final report.

 

[DiveGolfSki]

....I sincerely doubt a PADI dive center would intentionaly let divers down past 1.4 ppo2 for liability reasons.

http://www.itsadive.com/Dive_Spiegel_Grove.htm

Oh really? Check out one of BaitedStorm's posts:

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=53312

Good news, BaitedStorm .... I'm glad that the dive operator will be issuing a statement.

I didn't mean to disparage the dive operator (or anyone else for that matter) particularly after reading GPatton's lastest post. It seems the captain ... witness J ... did act accordingly. Until the final report is completed, I'll take whatever I can from this report namely:

1. The Grove is clearly an advanced dive and should not be taken lightly. Currents can be fickle.
2. Always plan your dive and dive your plan.
3. Never take things for granted (diving skills, equipment upkeep, whatever)
4. Unfortunately, this is one hobby where a simple mistake can be costly ... leaving a lot of loved ones behind ... plan accordingly. Again, condolences to the diver's family. I can only imagine what they're going through.
.
.
101. Stick with golf, it's a safer sport .... NOT. ... Sorry this was getting to serious.

 

[GrierHPharmD]

A couple of points for discussion:

1. I'm sorry that you were asked to remove your earlier posts, Vickie. I think that they illustrate the nature of this sort of disaster - we obtain fragmentary information in a piecemeal manner, some of which contradicts other parts, then we try and make some sense of it. You clearly stated that the full report wasn't in yet, and in that sense, were just reporting what you had heard, which I think was in order in a case like this. I'm not a big fan of removing posts because people get offended. I think the operator was out of line in asking you to do so.

2. As to the nitrox discussion, I don't see any evidence from the accident report that nitrox played a role. 30% nitrox would give you a MOD of 121 ft (1.4 ppO2) and a contingency depth of 143 ft (1.6 ppO2), both of which would be appropriate for this dive. As far as oxygen toxicity is concerned, I don't see evidence of it, as the diver made it to the surface. The primary issue with Oxtox is seizures at depth, and this obviously didn't happen.

3. I was wondering if he simply got separated from his buddy, exhausted his air at depth trying to rejoin him/her, then panicked from an OOA incident (and we can't rule out an arterial gas embolus from a possibly rapid ascent.) This explanation seems consistent with his behavior at the mooring buoy, explaining the empty tank and BC, the rush to swim for the boat, and his failure to make himself positively buoyant at the surface (dropping weights, removing/inflating BC, etc.) Panic is a scary thing, and it's been shown over and over to be a killer of divers. It's one of the few things that I'm really scared of underwater.

All of this is, of course, just speculation. I've been drawn to the case because the victim was only a year older than me, seems to have been an intelligent man and a trained, competent diver, was diving a site that I love to dive, and had an accident that cost him his life. A little too close to home...

Thanks for posting the accident report. I think that, for myself at least, analyzing the facts as they emerge and trying to make some sense of it all makes it a little easier to deal with the fact of this tragedy.

-Grier

 

[pilot fish]

I was "told" he had his Rescue Certification.

This helps us divers so thanks for posting this incident.

 

[H2Andy]

1. I'm sorry that you were asked to remove your earlier posts, Vickie.

just for the record, ScubaBoard staff had nothing to do with this.

the decision was made between Vickie and a third party, and Vickie did what
she thought was best.

ScubaBoard played no part in this discussion at all.

 

[baitedstorm]

1. I'm sorry that you were asked to remove your earlier posts, Vickie. I think that they illustrate the nature of this sort of disaster - we obtain fragmentary information in a piecemeal manner, some of which contradicts other parts, then we try and make some sense of it. You clearly stated that the full report wasn't in yet, and in that sense, were just reporting what you had heard, which I think was in order in a case like this. I'm not a big fan of removing posts because people get offended. I think the operator was out of line in asking you to do so.

Guys, I have to let you know that I wasn't asked to remove it, just to make sure the facts were correct. I'm the first one to say that, I wasn't there. My statements are based on purely the accounts of a trusted friend. I spoke to the Instructor and Co-owner of the dive operation this morning and he has stated to me that as soon as he is able to, he will issue a statement about the case. There's a lot of information still out.

I made some edits to my post out of respect for the diver, his family, the dive charter staff and really, all of us. We all want to know what happened, we all want closure on how something so horrible could possibly happen. I didn't want to see the Captain of the boat take all the heat for this, nor did I want to see the diver get shredded for doing something wrong, I think paying with his life was harsh enough.

I hope some of you can understand my need to make sure the story is told correctly, the second I was informed my original post wasn't accurate, I changed it. I work on a boat just about everyday and have seen some pretty awful things happen. One trend I notice most often is that when something doesn't go according to "plan", the Captain and crew are usually the first to be blamed. I've had a diver blame me for going into to deco because I didn't tell him to go up. The mere fact with that case was, during the dive briefing he was told what his maximum bottom time was (he was on air), the diver split from the group and went with his buddy to look for bugs, I met back up with them at the very end of the dive and saw he still hadn't gone up. *whose fault is it now*

Divers make judgment calls everyday, some good and others not so good. Someone linked an accident I had last year that I too, almost payed for it with my life. I found myself liable for it because I was the one with the final word. I chose to make the dive. I lived and now share that story with a lot of people in hopes of someone else not repeating my terrible mistake.

The bottom line is that as divers, we have to be responsible for ourself. If you can't take a compass heading or figure out your MOD on nitrox or really anything else, you just shouldn't be diving. We don't know if the Captain or crew were negligent, no more than we know if the diver made a mistake. I for one, am not going to throw anyone under the bus until the verdict is out and I would encourage everyone to do the same.

 

[BIGSAGE136]

Very well, and appropriately said Vickie. You've got a good head on you.