40cf too big for pony?

[MaxBottomtime]

Do you feel that diving without a pony is unsafe? How safe do you feel you need to be in the water?

 

[caruso]

Most divers dive the same way. Some dive better some dive worse.

We're talking gear configuration not diving skills. No two divers have the same exact gear configuration.

I feel that a diver who monitors his/her air supply properly and maintains their gear is going to be safe.

You are under this wildly mistaken impression that once a diver adds a pony bottle to their rig they throw caution to the wind and see no need to monitor their pressure, for reasons that defy logic and common sense.

I believe that the divers who surface with 500 psi are just as safe as the diver carrying a pony.

You're wrong. Failures due happen, albeit rarely. And WHEN there is a failure of the gas supply from the main tank, the pony bottle provides an extra measure of safety, and 500 psi in a an AL80 is less gas than 3000 psi in a 19cf pony bottle. More gas is ALWAYS safer than less gas- not only for the diver carrying it but for their buddies as well.

The only difference is that the diver with the pony has to carry more gear, has a new entanglement possibility, has to get another tank VIPd every year and a hydro every five years and has a second reg to maintain

Wrong again. To say "don't carry more gear because it's got to be maintained" is just silly. According to your reasoning we shouldn't carry an extra dive computer, or safety sausage or second cutting tool, or finger spool and deployable SMB because hey those need to be maintained and they could be another entanglement hazard too.

all in the hope that it is never needed.

I use my pony bottle on every dive even if I never take a breath off of it's regulator. Since I have a fully redundant and safe second gas supply, I draw more from my main tank which allows me longer dives, each and every time.

For the divers who use their ponies to extend dives, perhaps they should learn to use doubles or rebreathers. Just like the Air2 threads, throwing money and gear at a skills problem is not the answer.

Oh please. Carrying a pony as a reserve does not mean a diver lacks skills and is somehow compensating for it with an extra tank. Next you'll be saying divers who use doubles are bad divers compared to single tank divers and that extra tank is to fix a skills problem.

 

[broncobowsher]

It's a private boat, by invitation only.


Bob

If those are the people you have invited on your boat, I don't want your invitation.

 

[Bob DBF]

If those are the people you have invited on your boat, I don't want your invitation.

Perhaps you should read the thread so that you can direct your comments to the correct person. I do have a boat, however it was not mentioned in this thread until this post.


Bob

 

[MaxBottomtime]

We're talking gear configuration not diving skills. No two divers have the same exact gear configuration.

Have you heard of GUE? Even though I'm not GUE trained, many of my buddies dive the exact gear configuration.

Wrong again. To say "don't carry more gear because it's got to be maintained" is just silly. According to your reasoning we shouldn't carry an extra dive computer, or safety sausage or second cutting tool, or finger spool and deployable SMB because hey those need to be maintained and they could be another entanglement hazard too.

You don't need an extra dive computer or second cutting tool. The other items don't need much maintenance and should be in a pocket where they won't become entangled.

I use my pony bottle on every dive even if I never take a breath off of it's regulator. Since I have a fully redundant and safe second gas supply, I draw more from my main tank which allows me longer dives, each and every time.

Exactly my point. You dive differently because you know you have a pony to fall back on. I don't want divers on my boat who have to rely on additional gear for their safety.

Oh please. Carrying a pony as a reserve does not mean a diver lacks skills and is somehow compensating for it with an extra tank. Next you'll be saying divers who use doubles are bad divers compared to single tank divers and that extra tank is to fix a skills problem.

No, diving doubles is usually reserved for dives where the amount of gas needed for the dive exceeds the amount you can carry in a single tank. Diving doubles requires additional training and skills. They are part of the dive plan, not as a backup in case we don't follow safe diving protocols.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

It blows my mind that some boat captain would say "I've seen divers use a pony bottle in the wrong way therefore you cannot take yours on my boat". So a diver that makes the unwise decision to dive off such a person's boat, who carries a pony bottle for an extra measure of safety (such as Id o of course), must sacrifice their own safety for no other good reason than "The captain says so". Ridiculous.

Other Captains have different rules. Wookie said he allowed ponies on his boat, but once a diver breathed from his he was done diving for the day.

 

[sh0ck1999]

Wow this really turned into a **** show. I did a two tank dive both tanks I hit safety stop at roughly 550 both times and hit suface with 530 ish. I'm sticking with diving how I do any other time.

My main reason for having one is ice diving season is around the corner and the group I started to dive with does ice dives almost every week in the winter and all of them at one point or another have had a freeflow. I would think a pony would almost be mandatory for ice diving.


I do field service and preventive maintenance on medical equipment. And no matter how well something Is maintained. Sometimes **** just breaks for no reason.

 

[caruso]

Do you feel that diving without a pony is unsafe? How safe do you feel you need to be in the water?

Excellent question. I have in fact gotten used to diving with a pony, and when I'm diving, especially solo I am very aware that it's not there and I do have a sense of unease. About 2/3 of my diving is with my girlfriend, the rest is either a completely solo dive, or as in the example below, it's a group dive but I might do some solo diving during the dive and this example describes how I felt.

We were in Cozumel last year, at Palancar Gardens which you may know is a deep wall, I was around 90' and decided to break off from the group and explore a swimthru. We have preplanned these mini excursions, and my girlfriend knows she's with the group and DM during the time I'm off sticking my head in various places. So here I am about 45 seconds to a minute into this swim thru which might be around 25 yards, and it occurs to me that I didn't bring the pony bottle on this trip and if I should experience a rapid freeflow or a broken hose or some other major malfunction of my regulator I'm probably going to be a goner, I'll never make it back out of that swimthru and back to another source of gas. Now you might be thinking "well it was stupid to swim in there without a redundant gas supply" and you'd be 100% right, and I'd never do it again. On many dives we'll be at depth and I'll want to go inside the wreck while my girlfriend/dive buddy stays outside with the others- and it's the same scenario. In an overhead environment, on a deep dive, in a solo diving situation, yes I feel uncomfortable without it.

That much being said I always take the pony even when my girlfriend is with me, on any dive to depths of say, around 60' or greater. I just like to have it there, it gives me peace of mind to know that I've got that extra gas supply so I guess the short answer to your question would be "yes" I don't feel completely safe on deep dives without the pony bottle, regardless of whether I'm solo or with a buddy.

You don't need an extra dive computer or second cutting tool.

Let's just agree to disagree on this one, ok? I've had issues with my dive computer in the past, one time it flooded, one time it simply crapped out, and I'd rather not risk losing a dive or losing my nitrogen exposure information especially on a dive vacation which includes several deep dives over a relatively short period of time. As far as a second cutting tool? Again, I feel more comfortable having 2 tools in 2 different places, when diving wrecks in the cold dark Northeast waters on wrecks that are known to have a lot of monofilament.

Exactly my point. You dive differently because you know you have a pony to fall back on. I don't want divers on my boat who have to rely on additional gear for their safety.

Yes to your first sentence but as far as the second- there's no difference between relying on the gas in a full 19cf pony as compared to relying on a reserve in your main tank. Except that the pony bottle gives the extra safety of an independent gas supply.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

There is no reserve in my main tank. I surface before it's empty. When I began diving 72s with a J-valve were still in wide use. When it became hard to breathe you reached back and pulled down on a rod, giving you about 20% of the tank volume. Sometimes the valve was unknowingly bumped during the dive or the diver forgot to put it in the up position before the dive. That caused quite a few surprises but by the time your tank was that low you would be in shallow enough water to make a CESA. SPGs made diving a lot safer. I now know how much air I have at any point during a dive and can make my ascent accordingly. I've never been surprised at the amount of air I have nor have I ever come close to running out in three decades of scuba diving.

 

[caruso]

There is no reserve in my main tank. I surface before it's empty.

You surface before your tank is empty, meaning that you have some amount of gas left in your tank. I don't think it's a reach to say that remaining gas is considered to be "reserve" which could be used for, say having to delay surfacing due to a passing boat that ignored a dive flag, or an issue that needs to be dealt with at depth, or perhaps to assist another diver who messed up, that sort of thing.