400m swim for DM

[gangrel441]

The candidate must swim 400 metres/yards without stopping using no swimming aids and using any stroke or combination of strokes desired. If a candidate stops, the exercise is incomplete and must be repeated.

If you grab the wall, you stopped.

The best advice I can offer is to do the swim in a lake or olympic pool. By turning around 16 times you waste a LOT of momentum/energy changing directions.

The shop where I did my DM stamina tests wouldn't let you touch the wall. At all. We had to swim the circumference of the pool, which is also easier than laps because you can parlay your forward momentum through the 90deg turns vs losing it altogether in 180deg turns.

Unless you misunderstood what he said, that is more a technicality than anything. He isn't talking about stopping, grabbing the wall for support, taking a breath, resting up, having a smoke, then continuing the swim. If you watch any type of swimming competition, you will see in breast stroke (freestyle does flip turns, which I wouldn't recommend to someone who hasn't competed), the way the swimmers turn is to touch (grab) the wall for leverage as they rotate their body under them, then kick off the wall. This generally takes between 1 and 1.5 seconds.

I read the standard before I completed the assessment. I reviewed and clarified it with my instructor. Kicking off the wall is not specified as outside the standard, unless you want to try to argue it is a swimming aid. Personally, I think that case would be pretty weak. Grabbing the wall to turn is not the same as stopping. When someone tells me they are going to swim a 400, I assume they mean they are going to be doing touch turns or flip turns. Perhaps that is just because I used to compete.

 

[Thalassamania]

There is more than enough time to do the swim using sidestroke, why push it. I once tried it elementary backstroke and made the time. We always had a staff member wearing a waterpolo hood swim it with the candidates at exactly the minimum passing split. If you were ahead of him or her you were fine, if not you knew you were in trouble. At the end of the swim test all of the staff would do it.

 

[Colliam7]

Seems like a common experience base in the replies. 1) Train for it. Find out what pace works to get you through the 400, then work to improve your times; 2) You get 1 point just for finishing, so don't try to break speed records at the beginning - slow and steady gets you through; 3) This is criterion-referenced grading, it is not a race against other DMCs, and you can re-do until you get the 12 point total (presuming this is PADI).

Like some others, I found the 400 to be the hardest swim, from a score perspective. Get a 5 on the treading water, 3s or 4s on the 800 and the inert diver tow, and your 1 point on the 400 means you successfully meet the requirements of the Stamina Assessment and Development portion. The title even says it - 'Stamina'.

Notably, many of us spend a lot of time in the water diving, and we may be competent, even strong, swimmers but not fast swimmers. Many of us may be in good aerobic shape, but from cycling or running, and just don't swim that fast. I have never been a fast swimmer. But, I always finish, I never drown, and I got my 12 points.

 

[DarthWader]

I'm a Swimming nut. I've been obsessed ever since I discovered swimming a year ago. I regularly swim a couple of miles a week at my local YMCA so I'm very confident in my ability to swim 400m. what's got me worried though is I swim without the benefit of a left hand, or formal swim training and my lap time times Hover around the 60-70 second time frame (my absolute fastest was 48sec this am)
was the minimum time mentioned, or did I miss that part of the thread?
FWIW, I agree whole heartedly about technique. our local swim coach took pity on this poor floundering soul and gave me some pointers that really improved my efficiency and I managed to shave some seconds off my time; swimming became mush easier with her pointers.
I'm nowhere near ready for a DM cert yet, but I am planning my dive experiences with instructor & Dm goals in mind. This thread is just one of many that convinces me that, besides bottom time, the SB is one of the best things to happen in my scuba training.

 

[Rainer]

I would much rather do flipturns. If done correctly they can be a nice rest from the swim, and can go much further on less energy (1/4 to 1/3 the length of the pool, possibly further) if you have any technique.
The energy used vs. momentum gained of a flipturn is much more than that of a standard front crawl stroke.

And you'd want this to be counted for a DM cert?! :shakehead

 

[SparticleBrane]

Flipturns are proper swimming technique, and considering that this is a swimming skill, I prefer to use swimming technique...not "flounder my way through it" technique (kicking the whole thing, on your back). If I were the one grading, I would disqualify anyone who did that.

 

[Rainer]

Flipturns are proper swimming technique, and considering that this is a swimming skill, I prefer to use swimming technique...not "flounder my way through it" technique (kicking the whole thing, on your back). If I were the one grading, I would disqualify anyone who did that.

Nope, they're proper POOL swimming technique. DM cert process doesn't make you do the swim test because they care about your pool swimming abilities. They do it to make sure you have the stamina. If you can't do the swim test without using flipturns, it's time for you to practice. Not that many walls in the open ocean...

 

[TheHobster]

The candidate must swim 400 metres/yards without stopping using no swimming aids and using any stroke or combination of strokes desired. If a candidate stops, the exercise is incomplete and must be repeated.

If you grab the wall, you stopped.

The best advice I can offer is to do the swim in a lake or olympic pool. By turning around 16 times you waste a LOT of momentum/energy changing directions.

The shop where I did my DM stamina tests wouldn't let you touch the wall. At all. We had to swim the circumference of the pool, which is also easier than laps because you can parlay your forward momentum through the 90deg turns vs losing it altogether in 180deg turns.

That's an incredibly strict and unnecessary interpretation of the term swimming aids in the standards and is BS - wear goggles, wear a slim suit, not a baggie one; do a turn, but do it quick - many pools you do not have the choice of doing the circumference as the lane lines are in - just turn and go -

do it aerobically, don't kill yorself early; and make sure you practice and get in shape for it; have a breathing pattern and keep to it (every 2 or 3 strikes); stay long on your stroke

for the tread see if you can master the eggbeater kick that water polo players and synchro swimmers use; and last, don't take the snorkel lightly as I think it's harder than the 400

 

[SparticleBrane]

Nope, they're proper POOL swimming technique. DM cert process doesn't make you do the swim test because they care about your pool swimming abilities. They do it to make sure you have the stamina. If you can't do the swim test without using flipturns, it's time for you to practice. Not that many walls in the open ocean...

Are you seriously questioning whether or not I can do a 400m swim without flipturns? :no :no Did you miss my post above?
That was never implied at all--I was saying that I prefer to use them because they're proper swimming technique. If someone specifically wants me to touch the wall and turn around, fine, I'll do that. However, if I were grading, I'd let people do flipturns--there's no reason not to. Whether or not you like it, this is a swimming skill and I'm much more impressed by people who use proper swimming technique than people who don't.

Note that usually the test is given in a pool, thus I use "proper POOL swimming technique". If the DM cert process really cared about my stamina they'd make the test harder...400m is a joke for a stamina requirement. If you pace yourself, most people with an ounce of swimming ability can make it.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Up to your instructor, but I for one would make you do it again if you used that technique. Kicks of the wall and holding the edge are not allowed. Aint no walls and turns in the open water mate which is what you are showing your ability in relation to.
-j-

I was thinking the same thing ... in fact, according to NAUI Standards, grabbing the wall and kicking off aren't allowed ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)