35mm to Digital Convert

[Nemrod]

Much tadoo is made over sensor size when in a few more years we will have to find something else to argue over as it is becoming irrelevant, not yet, but becoming. If you are looking at the Oly ELP2 then I would recommend not bothering with that old fashioned camera and get the shiny newer ELP3 with high speed auto focus.

Olympus Pen E-PL3 Digital Camera / by Manufacture / Digital Cameras / Camera-Catalog.com

Or Sony's new entry with high speed auto focus.

Sony NEX-3 & NEX-5 Review: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review

The hardest thing for film people (35mm) to do when converting to digital is to realize that digital cameras are future junk nowadays to be discarded in a few weeks or at most a couple of years for the latest and greatest. In fact, most struggle to last that long much less the obsolescence factor. This is universal regardless of it being a high end full frame dSLR or a cheapo digi snapper. That is the price to be paid for instant gratification.


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[VAmtnguy]

Your old Motor Marine does not stand a chance against any of these, Olympus ZX1, Canon S95, Canon G12.

Does that mean that the those cameras will take better pictures than my Motor Marine, or I can't expect as good of pictures with these digitals ??

 

[Nemrod]

Does that mean that the those cameras will take better pictures than my Motor Marine, or I can't expect as good of pictures with these digitals ??

I shot a Nikon SLR in an Ike case and I also shot two Nikonos III for many years. I had an array of high dollars lenses for them all. I did get some good shots but I get better shots with my Canon S90. Of course, they are all slides--lol. But, frankly, the shots I get with my Canon S90 are far, far, far better in quality and art. Not meaning to get into an "art" argument here. Unless you are planning to show high resolution large screen Power Point displays for a talk or publish your work for sale/hire, you will be satisfied with the image quality from a Canon S/G or the Oly XZ1 etc. For web display, online display, computer display etc, you are not going to be fine with any of the cameras mentioned in this thread. If, however, you plan on a pro career or as I said, selling photos to publish etc, you need a dSLR or similar at this time. Next few years will see that change.

The main issue to me between a dSLR and a P&S is not the IQ but the auto focus lag. This can be dealt with to a large degree with a Canon S or G but of course us film guys are used to instant shutter. In the next few years, this will be a thing of the past also, new auto focus systems are on the horizon for even P&S cameras that will be as fast as current dSLR cameras.

I would seriously consider a Canon S/G in a Recsea housing, a Oly ELP3 with Oly housing and I would look at the Sony NEX and Nautica housing. For your initial 1,000 dollars, none of these are in that price range. Also, a warning, do not think you can buy a camera and then later get a housing. These cameras come and go so fast and the housing market is so small, you buy both together or risk not being able to find a housing even as little as a year later. If you invest in a high dollar housing, you probably should have a spare camera as well.

N

 

[VAmtnguy]

I shot a Nikon SLR in an Ike case and I also shot two Nikonos III for many years. I had an array of high dollars lenses for them all. I did get some good shots but I get better shots with my Canon S90. Of course, they are all slides--lol. But, frankly, the shots I get with my Canon S90 are far, far, far better in quality and art.

That is reassuring that even a simple digital setup will give me satisfactory photos equivalent or better than my 35mm setup.

Unless you are planning to show high resolution large screen Power Point displays for a talk or publish your work for sale/hire, you will be satisfied with the image quality from a Canon S/G or the Oly XZ1 etc. For web display, online display, computer display etc, you are not going to be fine with any of the cameras mentioned in this thread. If, however, you plan on a pro career or as I said, selling photos to publish etc, you need a dSLR or similar at this time. Next few years will see that change.

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Even though I have sold some of my underwater prints from the Motor Marine, my intentions from here out are to just get quality pictures of my diving adventures, so that I can sit and reminisce with friends in the Old Divers Home. :cool2: Sounds like the simple setups will work for me.

The main issue to me between a dSLR and a P&S is not the IQ but the auto focus lag. This can be dealt with to a large degree with a Canon S or G but of course us film guys are used to instant shutter. In the next few years, this will be a thing of the past also, new auto focus systems are on the horizon for even P&S cameras that will be as fast as current dSLR cameras.

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The auto-focus lag has been 1 concern that has bugged me before when considering a digital camera.....many of my dive friends end up with good shots of fish tails. I notice that the S95 has a manual focus function. Can the focus be setup up ahead of time (say for 3'), then get within that range and take the picture without any auto-focus lag ??

I would seriously consider a Canon S/G in a Recsea housing, a Oly ELP3 with Oly housing and I would look at the Sony NEX and Nautica housing. For your initial 1,000 dollars, none of these are in that price range. Also, a warning, do not think you can buy a camera and then later get a housing. These cameras come and go so fast and the housing market is so small, you buy both together or risk not being able to find a housing even as little as a year later. If you invest in a high dollar housing, you probably should have a spare camera as well.

I will look into all of these suggestions. Many Thanks.

 

[Nemrod]

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The auto-focus lag has been 1 concern that has bugged me before when considering a digital camera.....many of my dive friends end up with good shots of fish tails. I notice that the S95 has a manual focus function. Can the focus be setup up ahead of time (say for 3'), then get within that range and take the picture without any auto-focus lag ??
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Yes and that is my main trick for action shots. It works best of course with a fisheye or wide angle lens which increases the depth of field from dome to infinity. While your actual sharp focus is not perfect you can zone focus. This does speed the camera up noticeably. Shot to shot is still pretty slow due to flash recharge but with the camera flash set to manual and lowest power setting that too can be sped up to tolerable. I think the Oly XZ1 flash can be set to as low as 1/64 power. Problem with the Oly though is that it does not accept the fuill range of lenses that the S series does in either the Recsea or FIX housings.

The lag bugs some people more than others, I cannot say for you. The new cameras that are being released in the Oly and Sony line now have high speed autofocus if I understand correctly. I am pretty sure this will migrate down into the pro-sumer P&S cameras over the next few years. But for now, you have to deal with it. I have managed so far just fine.

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[VAmtnguy]

Nemrod, I hate to keep picking your brain, but this really helping me. I could be asking these question via a PM, but keeping it public may help others who are considering a new camera.

I see on the S-95 website that there is a Av mode. I also see where the maximum aperture is 2.0 to 4.9 (depending on focal length). Does the S95 go up to the typical f22 found in most cameras. I realize f22 would probably not be practical for most shots other than macro, but I was wondering if something in the mid-range around f8 or f11 is available, so I could have a little fudge factor with my depth of field in the manual mode ??

Both the Ikelite and Canon housings information specs state that the rear control dial is not operational with the S95. Would that be a problem ??

 

[Nemrod]

Nemrod, I hate to keep picking your brain, but this really helping me. I could be asking these question via a PM, but keeping it public may help others who are considering a new camera.

I see on the S-95 website that there is a Av mode. I also see where the maximum aperture is 2.0 to 4.9 (depending on focal length). Does the S95 go up to the typical f22 found in most cameras. I realize f22 would probably not be practical for most shots other than macro, but I was wondering if something in the mid-range around f8 or f11 is available, so I could have a little fudge factor with my depth of field in the manual mode ??

Both the Ikelite and Canon housings information specs state that the rear control dial is not operational with the S95. Would that be a problem ??

No, f8.0 is maximum. This is in part due to the physics of the small sensors. I have not found this to be a limitation in practical use, underwater or in my pocket. I think the G series has a ND filter to add an additional stop.

The larger sensor M4:3 and Nex APS sensors have more of a traditional aperture range.

Lack of access to the rear control dial, my opinion, would be a major PITA and a sever limitation to the camera. The great thing about the S series is that in either the FIX or Recsea housings the cameras feel much like a Nikonos in use with easy, direct control of aperture and shutter by turning dials, no button pushing or minimal button pushing. Yes, those housing are expensive.

Since this is your first digital foray, perhaps the Canon S95 with Canon housing. I tell you now though, if you choose to upgrade housings a year from now, you will be upgrading the camera as well as there will be no housings (other than used) available. And, that might be a good thing.

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[DoNotDstrb]

The main issue to me between a dSLR and a P&S is not the IQ but the auto focus lag. This can be dealt with to a large degree with a Canon S or G but of course us film guys are used to instant shutter. In the next few years, this will be a thing of the past also, new auto focus systems are on the horizon for even P&S cameras that will be as fast as current dSLR cameras.


N

Canon S and G series have HORRENDOUS shutter lag. I have both. Additionally, the S95's internal flash takes several seconds minimum to recycle... For this reason, followup shots of active subjects are difficult with the S95. The G12 is better with this since it has a larger battery. The F8 min aperture IS a limitation to me on the S/G. I did NOT have any issues with the missing rear dial on the S95. All that functionality can be moved to the rotating ring around the lens which IS functional with either housing. IMHO, this is a personal thing... all the functionality IS there, just some people MUST have it in a rear dial.

My PL-2 approaches my 7d in terms of shutter lag... IOW, hardly any. Heads and shoulders above the PL1 and MILES ahead of Canon S/G series. The internal strobe on the PL-2 recycles in about a second.... faster than my S&S YS-110a externals.

I agree that if buying Oly now, I would seriously look at the PL3 over the 2 -- that said, there is a $400 difference in camera/housing.... From what I've read, I'm hard-pressed to see $400 worth of improvements. If that difference shrinks when it all hits the street, then maybe. If both cameras were the SAME price or close to it, I would absolutely go with the 3.

As for sensor size.... depends on what you are going to do. On a 24x36 inch print from a S95 or G12 versus PLx you WILL be able to tell the difference a mile away. With the PLx, everything is enlarged 5 times LESS than on a P&S to produce the same size (any size) print. On a web site, Facebook, small (8x10 or less) prints, whatever, you will NOT be able tell a difference.

The S95/G12, and Oly PLx all offers full manual control just like SLRs and your MMII.

As for getting "better" pictures from P&S digital VS 35mm.... I would have to sort-of disagree with that one. I say "sort-of" because at the purely technical level... in a 35mm Ektachrome 100 slide you have the equivalent of about 25 megapixels in a 24x36mm image with near-infinite tone and color gradations. That is TONS more information that you get from any present-day P&S sensor.... There is NO comparison between 35mm film and P&S digital. The Canon 5D2 (full frame 21 megapixel) or Nikon D3 series (12-24mp) comes closest to 35mm film.

THAT SAID, in 35mm, you only have 36 exposures and NO immediate view...... SO...... with digital you can see and correct immediately (dozens of times, if needed) and THIS DOES translate into better pictures for most people. On an average 90 minute shallow dive, I shoot a couple of hundred images -- impossible with film -- the chances of getting something really good by employing techniques such as bracketing, varying focal points, compositions, etc, are much greater than when I only had 36 frames.


VAmtnguy: Given your stated purpose (reminiscing with friends, etc), you will be well-served with the original recommendation I made and be nicely under your budget. Just know the limitations of what you are getting if you ever get the bug to expand your activities from that.

 

[DoNotDstrb]

The hardest thing for film people (35mm) to do when converting to digital is to realize that digital cameras are future junk nowadays to be discarded in a few weeks or at most a couple of years for the latest and greatest. In fact, most struggle to last that long much less the obsolescence factor. This is universal regardless of it being a high end full frame dSLR or a cheapo digi snapper. That is the price to be paid for instant gratification.


N

This is 1000% absolutely NOT true and IS 1000% marketing BS that all camera makes would LOVE for us all to believe. They do everything they can to make us all swallow this crap and buy a new camera every time they release one -- which seems to be every 5 minutes.


On land, I shot with a pair of Canon 20d (8mp, APSC sensor) from 2004 until early 2010 when I upgraded to the 7d (18mp APSC) .... which DID have significant tangible bennies over the 20d.... namely autofocus that could keep up with birds in flight, HD video, and 8fps shooting speed. Everything else Canon came out with in the APSC line between 2004 and late 2009 was just MARKETING.....

With EITHER camera, I can make a 24x36 inch print and challenge ANYONE to tell them apart... and I have prints from both hanging in galleries and for sale at stock agencies. Do not buy into this "obsolescence factor" garbage --

VAmtnguy:

When upgrading cameras, you need to ask yourself this ONE question (just this one): "Will the new camera allow me to produce images that are IMPOSSIBLE or VERY DIFFICULT with my current gear?" -- If the answer is yes, then the upgrade is worth considering. With your MMII --> digital, the answer is a resounding "Yes"....

With most new digital models that "obsolete" the digital one before it, however, the answer is almost always "HELL NO!" -- For example, an upgrade between the Olympus PL2 and 3 is NOT worth it. The PL3 will NOT allow me to do anything I currently cannot do with the 2. Of course, if I were buying now and did not already own a 2, I'd buy the 3 if the price is right.

When I upgraded from the S95 to the PL-2, the "question" was answered... the PL-2 allows me to produce images I cannot make with the S-95 -- namely macro, superwide, and anything that requires quick focus/shutter response, interchangeable lenses or precise zoom control. Were I making this upgrade 6 months from now (or whenever the PL3 housing comes out), I would seriously consider the 3 assuming the $400 difference from the 2 will shrink.

 

[Nemrod]

This is 1000% absolutely NOT true and IS 1000% marketing BS that all camera makes would LOVE for us all to believe. They do everything they can to make us all swallow this crap and buy a new camera every time they release one -- which seems to be every 5 minutes.


On land, I shot with a pair of Canon 20d (8mp, APSC sensor) from 2004 until early 2010 when I upgraded to the 7d (18mp APSC) .... which DID have significant tangible bennies over the 20d.... namely autofocus that could keep up with birds in flight, HD video, and 8fps shooting speed. Everything else Canon came out with in the APSC line between 2004 and late 2009 was just MARKETING.....

With EITHER camera, I can make a 24x36 inch print and challenge ANYONE to tell them apart... and I have prints from both hanging in galleries and for sale at stock agencies. Do not buy into this "obsolescence factor" garbage --

VAmtnguy:

When upgrading cameras, you need to ask yourself this ONE question (just this one): "Will the new camera allow me to produce images that are IMPOSSIBLE or VERY DIFFICULT with my current gear?" -- If the answer is yes, then the upgrade is worth considering. With your MMII --> digital, the answer is a resounding "Yes"....

With most new digital models that "obsolete" the digital one before it, however, the answer is almost always "HELL NO!" -- For example, an upgrade between the Olympus PL2 and 3 is NOT worth it. The PL3 will NOT allow me to do anything I currently cannot do with the 2. Of course, if I were buying now and did not already own a 2, I'd buy the 3 if the price is right.

When I upgraded from the S95 to the PL-2, the "question" was answered... the PL-2 allows me to produce images I cannot make with the S-95 -- namely macro, superwide, and anything that requires quick focus/shutter response, interchangeable lenses or precise zoom control. Were I making this upgrade 6 months from now (or whenever the PL3 housing comes out), I would seriously consider the 3 assuming the $400 difference from the 2 will shrink.

You are welcome to your opinion, that is mine and I stay with it. The cameras produced today are not designed to last 30 years like the old Nikon and Canon 35mm equipment, they are designed to last until the next consumer cycle. Only the top end digital cameras and a few "tough" P&S have any weather sealing for their electronics. Get a dSLR wet and get some dirt in to it and then haul it to the top of a mountain, it will not last that long whereas a Nikon 35mm SLR could be darn near soaking wet and did not even need a battery to function.

Horrendous shutter lag is relative. The ELP2 is rather slow compared to my Nikon titanium FMII 35mm (which spent a night, lost, on a rock, on top of a mountain, in a rain storm in Glacier National and shrugged it off). In fact, it is DREADFULLY slow compared to a 35mm SLR or Leica range finder 35mm. The newest generation Oly M4:3 cameras just announced supposedly have high speed auto focus system, what exactly that means in real use I will wait until I get my hands on one. I suspect that it is a real improvement in responsiveness.

As to shot to shot with the S or G, again, since the gentleman is comparing to a film camera, my S90 is shot to shot faster than what I could have done with my Nikonos III with dual Oceanic strobes, by the time I cycled the film, allowed the strobes to charge and read my Sekonic meter and then adjusted exposure, I could have taken at least two shots with the S90, maybe three. Again, this is my opinion based on my experience with the cameras and I will stay with it. You are welcome to yours. Good luck, let me know in 10 or 15 years if you are still shooting that ELP2.

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