35mm to Digital Convert

[VAmtnguy]

My current camera status: I bought a Sea & Sea Motor Marine EX II about a dozen years ago with a YS 60 strobe and a 3T macro lens. About 6 years ago, I got a really sweet deal on a seldom used Motor Marine Pro EX “kit”, which included the 20 mm wide angle lens, a 2T lens, and the auxiliary optical viewfinder……all of the stuff that I was missing with the 1st purchase. Of course, I got another camera body and strobe as well as related arms and trays with that purchase, along with a Pelican case, so I have been good to go. I have been very satisfied with my setup, as it takes excellent pictures…..until my last trip to Bonaire. I think the strobe that I was using malfunctioned…..most of my pictures were “blue”. I will do some more testing to see if I can figure out exactly what happened.

Being very discouraged about not finding out about the problem until I got home and had the pictures developed, I am now considering going digital so I can have the instant gratification of seeing if the pictures are good right away. Plus, the added bonus of not having to hassle getting film through airline security will be a big advantage. I would like to find a camera, strobe, and maybe a wide angle lens that will take the quality photos that I have been accustomed to with my current camera, strobe, and lens, but hopefully be able to stay under a $1000 limit. My financial advisor (wife) has informed me that I ain’t spending a lot of money on a new camera.

I have just started to read the many posts here concerning different makes and models of cameras, and I am getting more confused the more I learn. So any suggestions to lead me down the right path would be great. An added bonus would be if I could use any of my existing equipment (strobe, arms, trays, and lens) with a new setup to save some costs…..but that is probably asking too much. :shocked2:

Thanks.

 

[Larry C]

There are a number of nice digital set-ups that can be had in your price range. There is no reason you shouldn't be able to use your tray and arm set-up. Most housings use a standard 1/4-20 thread for mounting, although there are exceptions, but the worst you'll have to do is drill a couple of holes.
The YS-60 may be an issue. Most compact camera/housing set-ups these days are designed with optical strobe firing in mind, and I think your YS-60 is hardwired only. If you go with an Ikelite housing, you can usually use a hardwired strobe with an Ikelite to Sea & Sea adapter, but it will be manual only. Ikelite won't use the strobe adjustment in housing or ttl firing with anything but an Ikelite strobe. There is a Sea & Sea strobe that is optical and will fit in your budget. The YS-01 is slave only, with manual settings and under $400. The YS-02 is slave with DS-ttl, so it will mimic your camera's settings and is under $500. You can have a really nice camera set-up, like the Canon S-95 or others talked about in this forum for under $500 with housing if you use the factory housing. If you go with Ikelite, you'll need a few hundred dollars more, usually. There are also high end housings in the $1000 dollar range.
To go wide angle, you'll need a wide-angle wet lens compatible with your housing. (Count on around $400 later on for that, but the native lens on the S95 goes to 24mm, I think.)

 

[Warmwater Wank]

VA--Mighty wide open choices, even in that budget range. First, you'll need to stay with a point & shoot digital to slide it by your CFO. That doesn't narrow it down much but it will help. Next, check out the individual camera brand forums on SB to get an over all sense of what's out there. Finally, after a lot of searches and research, buy a Canon S-95 (maybe $360-370 new) and park it in a Canon WP-DC35 housing ($175.). Add in a Sea&Sea YS-01 strobe ($429-459?) and you'll be in biz.

Of course there are other cameras, of course there are other housings, other strobes etc. If they can do a better job for the same or less $$ then you would have a truly amazing deal because the S-95 is a real solid performer. Look on the Canon Corner forum and you'll see plenty of photos and comments on this camera. And no, I don't shoot one but I've used one and it is a very sweet setup.

As for what else will work that you now own, well...The YS-60 is a 4 pin, hardwired strobe. Now days a fiber optic connection for synching the strobe & camera is used. Simpler, cheaper and much more reliable plus you don't need a bulkhead connection in the housing for it. (Most uw strobes are now optically triggered, even if the higher end ones still offer hardwired connections.) You might try selling your old outfit w/ a SB classified ad. Hang on to any tray and arm gear, close-up lenses etc., since something ought to fit (S&S still uses a YS adapter on the strobe connection etc.).

I'd have to say there is no "right path" on this, many cameras will do a credible job. It depends on what you want to shoot, how much you might eventually want to add for close-up lenses, wide angle etc. Going w/ a DSLR will get into very serious $$, even w/ a lower end body. The DSLR housings are what really eat up the budget. Start your searches but enjoy the process. A great place to also get background is Scott Geitler's "Underwater Photography Guide" Guide to Underwater Photography | Underwater Photography Guide // ww

 

[VAmtnguy]

Thanks for the prompt responses.

Yes, the YS 60 is a 4 pin, hard wired strobe. It will not work as a slave unit. The TTL function was nice, and may look into that with the YS-02. I have not run across any information on that strobe before mention in this thread.

May I ask how the YS-02 acts as a TLL, since it is not hardwired ?? Does the strobe stay lit as long as the camera flash does, instead of just firing a fixed amount ??

I did a quick search on the Canon S-95 after seeing it mentioned in 1 of the threads here, and will begin a little more research into that. I bought a Canon Rebel T1i about a year ago, and think that is a great camera, so there just might be another Canon in my future.

Many thanks for the input here. I will probably be asking a bunch more questions.

 

[bvanant]

The YS02 does not have TTL capability as far as I know but it can easily be used as a slave i.e. when the main flash fires the YS02 will also fire either as fill flash or sidelight or whatever you need for your scene.
Bill

 

[Nemrod]

I am sorry but 1,000 dollars will not buy a complete rig unless you seriously scrimp on important items.

Your old Motor Marine does not stand a chance against any of these, Olympus ZX1, Canon S95, Canon G12. It might be possible to get any of these three in the water in the OEM wet cases (not a true housing IMO).

Outfitted with a pro grade aluminum housing, strobe, a wide angle and macro lenses, tray and cables, at least 2,000 dollars.

N

 

[DoNotDstrb]

Nice... Once upon a time, I too shot the same S&S MMII kit with the Pelican case and all.... I still have it... by the time I went digital, It wasn't worth a hill of beans to sell. I put it in my "collection" along with my Nikon F2, Canon A1, AT1, Dacor regs, horsecollar BC, and other assorted pieces of curious obsolentia...... My kids are going to have one hell of a garage sale when I die!!! :reaper:


You could do this:

Canon S95 -- $369
Canon Housing: $179
Ike AF35 Strobe kit: $419

Total: $967 --- with free shipping at Adorama.

I had this exact setup and was perfectly happy with it until I started running into its limitations. I have since upgraded. Here are the limitations of this and what you can do about it for a reasonable amount of money:

1. The AF35 strobe is slave-only and does not support TTL or any type of optical cable connection. This flash is very limiting and I would not get it if you EVER plan on upgrading cameras. You will be buying new strobes at that time (I did.). It is also very low powered. For $549 you can get a S&S YS-01 with basic tray and arm -- much better choice... For $719, you can get the same strobe with a MUCH better arm (Sea Arm 7) that can grow into a 2 strobe setup someday. This strobe will also be compatible with any camera/housing that supports slave or optically-wired TTL slave.

2. The Canon housing does not support many accessories. The Ikelite housing ($324) does. If filters and wet lenses are important to you, then the Ike housing is a better buy.

3. Cameras such as the S-95 have tiny sensors compared to full-frame 35mm. This may matter a lot if your intention is to produce prints or do a lot of cropping. Without going into the uber-expensive housed SLR realm, a good compromise is the Olympus PL-2. Camera and housing can be had for just under $1,100 together. The sensor on the PL2 (Micro 4/3 format) is more than 5 times larger than the S-95 and the camera has interchangeable lenses. This translates into much less noise and much greater flexibility. HUGE improvements for just a few hundred bucks. If you go this route, the AF35 strobes will not work, so you would also have to factor in the added cost of the YS-01 or similar.

If your budget were $2,000, you could do this:

1. Olympus PL-2 -- $499
2. Olympus EP03 Housing -- $599
3. YS-01 with Sea Arm 7 -- $719

Total: $1,817.

IMHO, you will get immensely more mileage out of this system than you would the S-95 based setup. You gain interchangeable lenses on the camera, interchangeable ports on the housing, and a much more powerful strobe that can be expanded to two without throwing away any parts.

The question becomes (I learned this the hard way) -- Do you want to spend a bit more now to save more later?. If you NEVER see yourself upgrading, then the basic $967 setup above will produce fine images. OTOH, if you DO see yourself upgrading, I would NOT get the AF35 strobes. When I upgraded to an Olympus PL-2, my AF-35s became paperweights (ebay fodder). Had I bought the better strobes up front, I would not have wasted $800 on a pair of AF-35s....

One more word of advice..... Strobes tend to last MUCH longer than cameras in the obsolescence scale. Spending a bit more money on strobes that are flexible and compatible across the board is money well spent. I know photographers shooting 10 year old strobes that are no worse or less capable than brand new ones. Cameras, OTOH, seem to "get old" much quicker.

BTW, I still use the MMII Pelican case to travel with my current gear...... Those things literally last forever.

 

[VAmtnguy]

Y'all have been a wealth of information, and it has got me looking at several of the cameras and housings mentioned.

Nobody has mentioned the Sea & Sea DX-GE5 as a camera and housing that might work for me. Is that camera just inferior to the others ??

Will my Motor Marine II EX Sea Arm V and tray work with the YS-01 and 02 ??

 

[Larry C]

Yes, it should. Sea & Sea strobes all mount the same way. When you order a tray for them, you just ask for a Sea & Sea type mount. AFIK the YS-60 is no different. Tray to housing mounts can vary, but unless there's a large difference in housing size that causes an interference with the strobe arm or something, they can be adapted to most all housings with minor modification. (Some brands use a two screw mount on the housing and some use other than 1/4-20 mounting screws)

 

[DoNotDstrb]

Y'all have been a wealth of information, and it has got me looking at several of the cameras and housings mentioned.

Nobody has mentioned the Sea & Sea DX-GE5 as a camera and housing that might work for me. Is that camera just inferior to the others ??

Will my Motor Marine II EX Sea Arm V and tray work with the YS-01 and 02 ??

Good to look and read a lot before you plunk down hard-earned cash. The choices are many, but the main criteria, IMHO, boils down to these:

1. Good underwater housing availability.

2. Size of sensor.... Your choices are A) tiny -- all Point and Shoot cameras -- Sea & Sea cameras belong in this category. B) Medium -- Olympus and Panasonic 4/3 cameras -- as I mentioned before MUCH better than P&S and still reasonably priced. C) APSC sized sensors such as Canon Rebel, 7d, Nikon D300, etc -- A bit bigger than 4/3, cameras are not too pricey, but housings are MUCH more expensive. D) Full frame 35mm-size such as Canon 5D2. Housings AND cameras are very expensive. Get the biggest sensor you can afford. As I mentioned earlier, the 4/3 format is a GREAT compromise that gives you a relatively big sensor AND interchangeable lenses at prices not much higher than P&S. The price difference between a 4/3 camera/housing and an APSC system is roughly triple. (About $1,000 for Olympus PL2/housing and about $3,000 for Canon Rebel and housing) This is a good read on sensor sizes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_sensor_format

3. Interchangeable lenses -- P&S don't have them, most others do. Get it if you can afford it.

4. Interchangeable ports on housings -- P&S housings don't have them, most others do. Needed when interchangeable lenses are a feature of the camera.

As far as camera brands --- Having been a photographer for several decades I can tell you that all major manufacturers make quality products. The Nikon VS Canon (or whatever) fights you see in many forums are BS. It boils down to ergonomics and which feature set suits your style plus, underwater-wise, of course, availability of housings. You will not go wrong with Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Panasonic, Sea & Sea....