(31 MAY 05) DOM REP Incident

[clive francis]

I agree with you about the DM's... Pia was very good and its turn's out that she is a qualified Scuba Instructor as well. She is very calm, relaxed and concerned about safety. We did have a mix-up between imperial & metric, but that's normal.

The was another male DM from the USA that was superb ( cannot remember his name ) but I would dive with him anytime.

However there was one of the male DM's ( a fella from Britain ) that got us lost but I had a feeling that he was new to the area. He did not convey confidence. Both my buddy and I noticed this.

I did notice that the some of the DM's did not protect the coral. I saw two actually kick some fan coral over with a fin. I hope it was an accident. Such a shame.

DI_Guy

I received another email form PADI, stating that they had closed the case and dealt with them but gave no indication of what the course of action was (if any).

I have written back to them stating that where people's lives are at risk they should publish their findings and actions/recommendations.

they also said if any other divers have had issues with the operators they should contact PADI, so here is her email:

lindav@padi.com

so write to Linda and tell her your woes.

only through this type of action, and public accountability, even if it means a rogues gallery of dive shops will the dive industry improve for the better.

 

[DennisW]

Clive,

It looks like you may have done all you can to report the incident(s) with this dive operator. Everyone has made very good recommendations.

One thing you need to know: To my understanding, A five star facility, just means that the dive operator has paid a large amount of money to PADI and will only teach PADI courses. That is all it means.

Of course, I could be wrong, but I doubt it. And, I am not PADI bashing, I have dived with some very good five star operators and been very satisfied with their safety standards and service. I have also dived with operators that are five star and those that are not, that I would never dive with again.

 

[wreckchick]

Clive,

If the regulator wasn't functioning properly, why did you continue to dive with it?

When is it the responsibility of the DM on the boat to babysit perfectly certified divers and remind them to do buddy checks?

The instructor SHOULD have had control over the student, but the boat can't leave until all divers are back on board.

As a divemaster, I've taken people on their 1st (accidently) 5th, etc. post certification dive to depths of 100'ish. It's really not that big a deal if the supervising diver is competent and adept at reading the supervisee. I'll take down 2 or 3 non-AOW divers depending on the vibe I get from them. My issue with the AOW is not the timing or the number of dives after OW, it's the name on the card. If it was the ConEd card, I'd be fine with it, but nothing about the cert makes a diver advanced (I'll consider this poor dead horse beaten).

And, no, I'll never dive anyone else's rental gear. I have my own rental gear for the boat that I'd dive, but I know how I take care of it. No one sets up my gear or breaks down my gear. No one but me is responsible for making sure it gets on the boat.

R

 

[clive francis]

Clive,

If the regulator wasn't functioning properly, why did you continue to dive with it?

Because i was confident enough with my abilities and my budy to continue, BUT that is not the point when i pay for a service i expect the service not half, no more than you would!

When is it the responsibility of the DM on the boat to babysit perfectly certified divers and remind them to do buddy checks?

the operator/instructor/DM are suposed to be role models, follow me and all that, there is always a mixture of seasoned and green divers on a boat, by reminding divers it reinforces the safety principles

The instructor SHOULD have had control over the student, but the boat can't leave until all divers are back on board.

if the student ripped his reg out and bolted for the surface then that would indicate that there was a lack of control.

As a divemaster, I've taken people on their 1st (accidently) 5th, etc. post certification dive to depths of 100'ish. It's really not that big a deal if the supervising diver is competent and adept at reading the supervisee. I'll take down 2 or 3 non-AOW divers depending on the vibe I get from them. My issue with the AOW is not the timing or the number of dives after OW, it's the name on the card. If it was the ConEd card, I'd be fine with it, but nothing about the cert makes a diver advanced (I'll consider this poor dead horse beaten).

And, no, I'll never dive anyone else's rental gear. I have my own rental gear for the boat that I'd dive, but I know how I take care of it. No one sets up my gear or breaks down my gear. No one but me is responsible for making sure it gets on the boat.

R

so you have admitted to taking people beyond their qualification, is that role model behaviour?

who would be responsible should an accident happen if they were led to depths/conditions beyond their qualification?

when you have a child and limited lugage allowance sometimes you have no choice in rental gear, but like i have said the rental gear should be serviced and of a safe and useable condition not in a condition that can lead to an accident.

if you rented a car and it had faulty brakes which resulted in an accident i am sure as hell you would not walk away without complaining and sueing the *****e off them for negligence!

 

[VinceDS]

Because i was confident enough with my abilities and my budy to continue, BUT that is not the point when i pay for a service i expect the service not half, no more than you would!



the operator/instructor/DM are suposed to be role models, follow me and all that, there is always a mixture of seasoned and green divers on a boat, by reminding divers it reinforces the safety principles



if the student ripped his reg out and bolted for the surface then that would indicate that there was a lack of control.



so you have admitted to taking people beyond their qualification, is that role model behaviour?

who would be responsible should an accident happen if they were led to depths/conditions beyond their qualification?

when you have a child and limited lugage allowance sometimes you have no choice in rental gear, but like i have said the rental gear should be serviced and of a safe and useable condition not in a condition that can lead to an accident.

if you rented a car and it had faulty brakes which resulted in an accident i am sure as hell you would not walk away without complaining and sueing the *****e off them for negligence!

Clive,

I have read over all all of the responses to your post and wish to put in my two cents. Seems that the dive operator was a real mess. I apprecitate the tip and will avoid them the next time I am in the islands.

I am still very perplexed about why, someone with your experience, would choose to bring your camera and camera equipment on a trip over your own regs. These are advanced dives that call for advanced eqipment. I have two small kids I travel with routinely and have always brought - at a bare min - my own regs, gauges, computer, and bp / wings - with me on any trips I plan to dive deep on. Where there is a will there is a way.

As far as the equipment goes, if you felt it was substandard, you should not have dove it - period. Doesn't matter what your abilities are, or the abilities of your buddy, if your equipment dies at 36m you have a problem. And, you don't know how your buddy is going to react in an emergency at that depth.

As far as being part of a 'blame culture' - hell, I'm pruod of it - keeps us all on our toes...

 

[clive francis]

Clive,

I have read over all all of the responses to your post and wish to put in my two cents. Seems that the dive operator was a real mess. I apprecitate the tip and will avoid them the next time I am in the islands.

I am still very perplexed about why, someone with your experience, would choose to bring your camera and camera equipment on a trip over your own regs. These are advanced dives that call for advanced eqipment. I have two small kids I travel with routinely and have always brought - at a bare min - my own regs, gauges, computer, and bp / wings - with me on any trips I plan to dive deep on. Where there is a will there is a way.

As far as the equipment goes, if you felt it was substandard, you should not have dove it - period. Doesn't matter what your abilities are, or the abilities of your buddy, if your equipment dies at 36m you have a problem. And, you don't know how your buddy is going to react in an emergency at that depth.

As far as being part of a 'blame culture' - hell, I'm pruod of it - keeps us all on our toes...

this is what i am struggling to understand, i highlight a dangerous operation so that others don't suffer, and all i get is a load of flaming .

i thought the US thrived on blame culture and massive law suits.

i think next time i find a place that you guys frequent that are operating dangerously i will just keep quiet and let someone else find out the hard way.

 

[ScubaSarus]

I had the same problem at 25 ft. Used a rental reg while mine was being serviced. Hit a strong current at 25 ft and I could not get enough air. I went to the surface calmly and snorkled it unitl I was out of the current.

I inspected the reg to notice the filter was green. A lesson learned. Use your own reg and BC and get to know it. I just took my reg in to be serviced knowing it was acting up. I aslo noticed after my last dive the filter loosening up between the moving orafice and clip ? The filter actually turned sideways for some reason. Strange.

 

[VinceDS]

this is what i am struggling to understand, i highlight a dangerous operation so that others don't suffer, and all i get is a load of flaming .

i thought the US thrived on blame culture and massive law suits.

i think next time i find a place that you guys frequent that are operating dangerously i will just keep quiet and let someone else find out the hard way.

If you read my post, I genuinely thanked you for pointing out a poorly run / dangerous dive operation. didn't flame you at all but am being direct about the following question:

""I am still very perplexed about why, someone with your experience, would choose to bring your camera and camera equipment on a trip over your own regs. These are advanced dives that call for advanced eqipment. I have two small kids I travel with routinely and have always brought - at a bare min - my own regs, gauges, computer, and bp / wings - with me on any trips I plan to dive deep on. Where there is a will there is a way.""

Regs and computers don't weigh that much...

 

[Deco Dan]

I have just returned from 2 weeks in the DOM REP (Sosua)

while there i signed up with Northern Coast Divers (Sosua) for 10 dives.

During their presentation they came across as very professional and so they should they are a 5* company.

did my first dive at 5 rocks no budy checks and a limited dive brief, it was a complete waste of a dive, silted up, poor vis and no fish life.

next dive was at paradise 1 or 2 and that was better, but again no budy check.

anyway next dive was on the zingara, a wreck at 36m, now they knew i had my rescue but they never checked if i was deep dive qualified (AOW only takes you to 30m).

no budy check, limited brief, in we went (after our own check) and down we went.

25 mins later we surfaced and were immeadiately told to get in the boat quick.

my first thoughts were not another bloody tsunami, how lucky could i be?

any way back in the boat, a guy was on the floor on O2.

apparently he had trouble breathing ripped out his reg took a big breath and shot for the surface from 30m.

straight away we said why did you wait 20 mins for us, why not go back and send another boat to get us?

why no emergency recall?

the diver had just completed his OW and was doing his AOW, this was his 5th dive and they took him to 30m, everyone of us (rescue divers or DM's) said why take him to 30m on his 5th dive that is crazy.

they said it was his deep dive for his AOW, yeah we said so what was wrong with 19m or 20m?

it was all down to the cost of putting out two boats.

any way the next day i dived the reg seemed a bit funny, but i didn't really think much of it, until i hit the water that was.

the deeper i got the harder it was to suck some air, so i returned to the surface and had a play, but switched to the octopus.

back on the boat i complained and got the its rental kit so you are not going to get the best stuff!

next day i went diving and had the same or another crap reg (scubapro's) that got harder to breath the deaper you went, again i complained and received the same answer.

the next dive was zingara again so i checked the reg and it seemed ok, i got to about 20m and it felt like someone had turned the tank off, i ripped out the reg and used the octopus and stayed on the line for a couple of minutes to steady myself, and i almost shot for the surface myself, because you keep trying to breath thinking it will get better!

after the dive i complained again and refused to dive, so they changed the reg set.

the new reg worked fine, the hoses had perished through and you could see the inner braid!

now i never got to speak to the diver that bolted to the surface, but i wonder if he had my regs, or more to the point i ended up with his!?!

if this is the case it was no wonder he did what he did.

analysis of this is don't use these guys, not if you value your life!

apparently PADI and Thomson holidays did an investigation and found no problems - every diver on the boat said in a report that it was too deep too soon.

so either the dive shop didn't submit the reports or PADI ignored it.

either way, my confidence in PADI as a professional outfit has been seriously dented and we are all sending an official complaint to them.

Why are you down on PADI? A diver has to take responsibly for themselves. If you felt that they were unsafe and had faulty equipment, why did you continue to dive with them?

 

[seafox69]

I have brought my own gear every place I have had to travel. Have over 70 LBS in camera gear alone. If I need to pay for extra baggage I do. I do not, will not, and never have trusted any tropical resorts dive gear. I spent lots of money on my own gear and will bring it with me everywhere. Your situation is a perfect example of why I do.

And also, the more you get off of the beaten path, the more problems you will have with rental gear. Bonaire, Roatan, Belize, Caymans, places like that will have shops with good, well maintained rental gear somewhere. Second rate dive areas in the Caribbean, which definitely applies to DR, will not have financial resources to aquire new rental gear.