30 lbs or 40 lbs wing?

[Nasser]

I recently was on a live aboard that had 15 liter steel tanks. I dive with a 3mm shorty (with 5kg) or 5mm (with 7kg) in cooler water. I'm planning on getting a BP&W and was wondering if I should go with the 30 lbs wing or the 40 lbs wing for single tank diving using these 15 liter steel tanks?

thanks.

 

[buddhasummer]

Non expert advice.

The wing needs to be able to float your rig without you in it and to compensate for any lost buoyancy as your suit compresses with depth. So if you add the weight of the tank when full, the weight of your plate (if steel around 5.5lbs) and the weight of your regs (around 3lbs) subtract that number from the lift of your wing and you'll have a pretty good idea of what you will need. Normally I would have said a 30lb would be enough but am unsure of the weight of a 15liter steel, it's a big tank and could be as much 10+lbs when full. My non expert opinion would be, assuming my math is correct, that a 30lb wing would be likely be enough. Hopefully one of the experts, Tobin?, will step in. Going from BC to BP/W you will be dropping some weight from your belt, 3kg or more as BCs generally gave some inherent buoyancy and of course you now have around 2kg on your back. Good luck.

 

[Doppler]

Buy a fish or luggage scale... Put a 15 litre tank charged to operating pressure... Probably around 230 bar... And lower it into water then weigh it.

 

[Instructor_Tom]

not real good on the liter conversion but if I have it right the 15 liter should be an lp104 or 108. which is my favorite tank to dive. In an OW configuration 30lbs of lift would be the minimum you could get away with. but the question is what else are you carrying? in my case at least 2 lights, a reel, knife or cutter I use a 35lb wing and there are days I wish I had at least 40lb of list.

my recommendation for a steel 108 would be a 40lb wing. it will taco more and be a bit more drag but it will also have enough lift to get you up out of the water when you need it.

my configuration is 35lb wing with 6lb of lead in a 3mil wetsuit using an lp108.

on double 108s I use a Zeagle big Bertha (65lb lift) wing.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[buddhasummer]

not real good on the liter conversion but if I have it right the 15 liter should be an lp104 or 108. which is my favorite tank to dive. In an OW configuration 30lbs of lift would be the minimum you could get away with. but the question is what else are you carrying? in my case at least 2 lights, a reel, knife or cutter I use a 35lb wing and there are days I wish I had at least 40lb of list.

my recommendation for a steel 108 would be a 40lb wing. it will taco more and be a bit more drag but it will also have enough lift to get you up out of the water when you need it.

my configuration is 35lb wing with 6lb of lead in a 3mil wetsuit using an lp108.

on double 108s I use a Zeagle big Bertha (65lb lift) wing.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Depends on the wing, for example the Oxycheq 30 and 40 are very similar in size and both very narrow.

 

[danvolker]

My recommendation is to configure yourself so as to be easily capable of getting neutral or a few pounds positive with a 30 pound wing. I don't think you should get into the water weighing so much that you need a monster wing--which a 40 pound wing is....that lots more drag which makes you swim harder to go the same speed, and it means that if you ever did have a wing failure, you are carrying so much weight that it gets to be problematic. If you are using a shorty, the suit is not likely to add a huge amount of lift--and any lift a wetsuit offers begins to disappear rapidly as you approach 100 feet deep or deeper--meaning the weight you are wearing is not held by the wetsuit any more, and is going to have to be countered by the wing.

I use an 18 pound lift Halcyon from around 1998. It is ideal with an 80cu foot al tank...not terrible with the lp 120, and with the really heavy HP100 tanks it is not the ideal wing--pretty much full inflation to counter the tank, the 6 pound back plate, reg and my can light.
On the other hand, the 18 pound wing is like diving with only a harness and no bc, from a drag point of view...which is pretty awesome

If you are nervous about being out of air on the surface, or low on air, and want easy relaxed breathing, have a snorkel with you..flat horizontal swimming and you are comfortable in a wing on the surface for as many hours as you need to be doing this. Or, if you want to swim on your back, even the 18 pound wing does this easily.... You will find that only the very high drag traditional jacket type BC's float your head way out of the water in a vertical position at the surface---the penalty for this is high drag under water. Personally I buy my gear for how it performs underwater, not sitting on a boat, or even for floating like a raft. Halcyon used to sell an inflatable surfmat you can use like a bellyboard for a long swim...you store it in the pouch between your back and the back plate..there was/is also the raft that will fit in there as well...you'd need to find someone that would part with theirs....or just use a float like this Lift Bags | Halcyon ..

 

[fbk]

I use 15L steel Fabers, they are pretty negative when full and stay slightly negative when close to empty, very nicely balanced rig if you can handle the size out of the water. With a BP/W you will drop a lot of the weight on your belt needed to sink your BC, 5kg is a lot for a 2mm shorty. I have an ali plate and use 0-3lb in a shorty or a full 3mm depending what else I carry and 6-8lb in a 5mm. I have a 25lb wing and it is tons more lift than I ever need, if you only dive in 3 or 5mm I would get the 30lb wing or go even smaller.

 

[Nasser]

Thanks for the feedback everyone - some very good points brought up. I would like to also add a little more info.

All my diving is being done in the Red Sea (deep South Egypt and Sudan) and 15 liter steel tanks are pretty standard on liveaboards. A good portion of the dives are at fairly deep plateaus (and some wrecks) so the average depth can be between 35-40 meters. We tend to dive air and Nitrox at 28% (a good compromise). So 15 liters steel is quite appropriate and we weight ourselves accordingly.

It's also worth noting that the Red Sea is very salty and you need a little more weight than in other parts of the world... most people who come to visit here are quite surprised at this (although with steel tanks it's a little less of an issue). I could probably drop a kilo or so depending what I take down and fine tune things, but I have no problem doing a 3 meter deco stop with 30-40 bars left in my tank and an empty (or nearly empty) BC. So my weighting is fine with both 3mm and 5mm suites.

At any rate, I am considering the Halcyon Eclipse wing and when I contacted their technical support they recommended going with the 40 lbs wing for a 15 liter steel tank. They also mentioned that both the 30 lbs and 40 lbs wings are very close in size and are quite streamlined. It will be nice to dive a more streamlined rig and move some of the weight off the belt and onto the back... just want to make sure I have enough lift when I need it for my diving environment with as little drag as possible.

 

[eelnoraa]

I like 30lb eclipse wing a lot more than 40lb version. The 40 is noticeably wider than the 30. Oxycheq 40 although very streamline, but with tank on does NOT give nearly 40lb lift. In my non scientific test, eclipse 30lb float me higher above water than Oxycheq 40lb with every other piece of equipment remained the same.

With 30lb wing and single tank, if you are weighted properly, you should have no problem floating your head comfortably above water at surface. And unless you go fully weight integrated into your rig, floating the rig without you shouldnt be a problem either. And last, you wing needs to be able to handle the shift in buoyance of all your equipments. Here, wing lift largely depends on exposure suit buoyance and tank size. If you are weighted properly, you will be only over weighted by the gas in your tank at the surface at the beginning of the dive. Now you decent to the bottom, you exposure suit get compressed and loses buoyance. You tank is still reasonable full at that time, you wing needs to at least support suit buoyance shift + weight of gas in your tank.

 

[Pin83]

I dive with a Zeagle stainless BP/W, 15l steel singles, and integrated weights (I know, not DIR). I have a 40lb Ranger wing, and it's awesome. I would have preferred a 30lb donut, but I wasn't sure about a 30lb wing floating my kit at the surface if I needed it to. However, keep in mind that this is working as a DM, and therefore I carry extra weight (12lb total, in case someone else needs extra mid-dive, or I need to pull someone down if they cock up their bouyancy when task-loaded). Otherwise, I'd have 6lb on, and a 30lb wing would be fine.

The Zeagle setup is very good for this. The wings attach to the plate with small bolts and metal "tri-glide style" clips. Sound odd, but works great. There are two sets of holes perfectly spaced for either singles or twins, so you can use a 40lb Ranger bladder with either, and a strap/clip that holds the outside edges of the wing toward the plate. I'm really happy with mine, and the build quality is outstanding. I've never heard anyone regret buying Zeagle gear, but it's also not common with DIR fans.

If you're not sure, consider borrowing a wing and try-dive it...?

Dave.