3 Divers lost on the Spiegel Grove

[mike_s]

From Press Release


March 19, 2007

Autopsies done on dead divers

Key West - The Monroe County Medical Examiner's Office performed autopsies on all three of the men who died Friday while diving inside the Spiegel Grove wreck offshore of Key largo.

According to the Medical Examiner's Office, preliminary autopsy results showed the three men all died of saltwater drowning.

Detectives continue to investigate the circumstances surrounding their deaths.

 

[letterboy]

Aren't most scuba related deaths chalked up to drowning?

 

[Cacia]

yes, and many of the divers that die are highly trained, they fall at two ends of the continuum, I thought: The very new and the very experienced.

redundancy is over-kill sometimes, but if I were doing a deep, dark penetration, I might think of redundant lines....if there were lots of sharp edges. How many lines would three divers normally lay?

To have all those back up lights and yet only one little cave line could be sketchy, seems to me.

 

[mike_s]

Aren't most scuba related deaths chalked up to drowning?

Yes. But if you'll read the definition for drowing, it's death due to asphyxia caused by immersion in fluid, usually water.

Asphyxia is impared gas exchange that causes insufficient intake of oxygen.

In reality, people have died underwater from carbon monoxide poisoning from a rebreather. They just happened to be underwater.... so it was caused a drowining.... when in reality, they just passed out and asphyxiated.

To most folks, drowining "includes" intake of water....

In the statement above, the Medical Examiner had to put a cause of death down. It doesn't imply fault of the equipment or other, but also doesn't imply anything criminal either. (so not ruled a homocide, etc).

 

[Thalassamania]

In reality, people have died underwater from carbon monoxide poisoning from a rebreather.

Dioxide yes.

 

[daniel f aleman]

How can 4 guys, who have probably councelled people never to do what they did, allow themselves to come up with the plan, or lack thereof, that they came up with??
Where were the alarms in their heads?

Overconfidence, invincibility. No thanks, Ill dive scared and prepared.

Like not using a condom, that one time... Damn.

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=36325

 

[K_girl]

Originally Posted by DeepBound
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but isn't the New Jersey wreck penetration school of thought in favor of progressive penetration and familizarization rather than using reels? Or is that ancient history?

Yes, if you read the book "Deep Descent" - mostly about diving the Andrea Doria and the deaths that occurred there, there are two schools of thought on this. If my memory serves me correctly John Chatterton (Deep Sea Detectives, Shadow Divers)advocates progressive penetration over reels because it's possible to become entangled in the reel lines. Certainly, progressive penetration requires a more extreme discipline, a well thought-out dive plan and strict adherence to the dive plan.

I would be deeply disappointed if it turned out that these guys did not give the Spiegal Grove the proper adherence to whatever discipline they practiced just because it is not as big or as deep as the Andrea Doria. (Which, from accounts here, they were very experienced at diving.) The surviving diver will be the one to ultimately answer that question. There have already been corrections to the story in the media (about the role of the surviving diver), so there has been some misinformation already. We'll just have to wait and see. Is it true these were divers who regularly used guide lines, but decided they didn't need them on this dive and had no dive plan and just decided to penetrate anyway? This is what we are hearing from the media, it's not speculation on our part. So hard to believe if it's true.

 

[Cacia]

CO would be like if the exaust of the dive van was backed up to the air intake of the compressor...I think that has happened, if I remember right.

 

[letterboy]

Yes. But if you'll read the definition for drowing, it's death due to asphyxia caused by immersion in fluid, usually water.

Asphyxia is impared gas exchange that causes insufficient intake of oxygen.

In reality, people have died underwater from carbon monoxide poisoning from a rebreather. They just happened to be underwater.... so it was caused a drowining.... when in reality, they just passed out and asphyxiated.

To most folks, drowining "includes" intake of water....

In the statement above, the Medical Examiner had to put a cause of death down. It doesn't imply fault of the equipment or other, but also doesn't imply anything criminal either. (so not ruled a homocide, etc).

So in theory if one were to stop breathing, and died, for any reason underwater it could be considered drowning. . .

 

[mike_s]

So in theory if one were to stop breathing, and died, for any reason underwater it could be considered drowning. . .

Yep. If you held your breath until you passed out underwater, you asphyxiated (lack of oxygen) and you were immersed in water, you drowned.

for the Medican Examiner, it meets the definition.

Now... If I was holding your head underwater, and you passed out, axphyxiated, then there is criminal negligence also. (i.e, ruled a homocide).


But back to your above question, if you had a heart attack while underwater, quit breathing, surely a competent Medical Examiner would catch that during the autopsy and it would be noted on the report as cause of death. Of course the news media would still blow it out of perscpective. We had a diver at a local quarry have a heart attack on the dock and die. The news report said he died diving. he hadn't been in the water and wasn't even wet.