21w Lithium ion powered salvo lights

[Spoon]

Guys now that i finally decided on getting a 21w salvo light i get an email from barry stating to check www.salvodiving.com and check out the new 21W li-ion powered lights. now i am even more confused. what is the difference between this one and the ni-mh ones? could someone explain the differences to me?

http://www.salvodiving.com/li_ion_lighting

also i was able to test the 21w hid of Pakman over the weekend. it was a sweet light but the lighhead was kinda big because the ballast was located in it and the lighthead was completely sealed. the li-ion lights have 2 versions one: 7.2 Amp Li-Ion 21 Watt HID and a 7.2 Amp Li-Ion 21 Watt Remote Head HID what are the differences? is it only the loaction of the ballast?

i also noticed that this particular model 9 Amp NIMH Twist Focus 21 Watt HID has the lighthead completely sealed with the ballast in the lighhead while the 9 Amp NIMH Twist Focus 21 Watt HID w remotehead is exactly the same except that the lighthead is open with bulb protected by testube. also the ballast is located in the canister. the lighhead of this one is smaller yet looks more fragile than the sealed one. im now officially very confused.

 

[aquaoren]

Why not ask Barry for the differences and update us then?

 

[Rick Inman]

Guys now that i finally decided on getting a 21w salvo light i get an email from barry stating to check www.salvodiving.com and check out the new 21W li-ion powered lights. now i am even more confused. what is the difference between this one and the ni-mh ones? could someone explain the differences to me?

I don't know, but the new Dry Lid looks like a nice feature - wish my 21W Salvo had that.

 

[Spoon]

Why not ask Barry for the differences and update us then?

i already did. emailed him this morning. will have updates soon. i was so set on the 21w hids now he has em in li-ion and also with remote light heads. too many options.

 

[Spoon]

I don't know, but the new Dry Lid looks like a nice feature - wish my 21W Salvo had that.

rick,

what is your 21w salvo? is it the one with the sealed lighthead with the ballast located in it? or is it the one with the remote open lighthead with the bulb protected by testube and ballast in the can?

 

[SangP]

Finally...

Someone has decided to use Li-Ion Batteries for the lamps. The advantages of Li-Ion is the size and the discharge charactericts over NIMH. First off they are smaller for the same amout of power and they are much better able to take discharge/charge cycles and hence have a longer life span.

Nickel Metal Hydride (NiMh) can be recharged quickly and easily, do
not suffer from "memory effect" and do not need to be fully discharged
before recharging.

Lithium Ion (Li-Ion) batteries are the most advanced technology and do
not suffer from "memory effect", do not have to be fully discharged
before recharging, and deliver more energy per charge than NiMH or
Ni-Cd chemistry batteries. Li-Ion batteries also tend to be more
expensive to buy and replace.

Nickel-Cadmium (Ni-Cd) batteries must be fully discharged before use
and are prone to "memory effect".

"Memory effect" is the reduction in total capacity of the battery,
this occurs each time the battery is recharged.

I got this from Google so whoever the author is, I thank you.

SangP

In a perfect world I would like to see a diving light using 13.5W Li-Ion, Long throw LED lamps with adjustable spread. This combo would make a perfect lamp. It would be possible with LED technology to even have the lamp in the battery compartment with fiberoptic cable transfering the light to a reverse reflector in the hand mount with adjustable focus and interchangable filters. My wish for the new year LOL!

 

[Spoon]

Lithium Ion (Li-Ion) batteries are the most advanced technology and do
not suffer from "memory effect", do not have to be fully discharged
before recharging, and deliver more energy per charge than NiMH or
Ni-Cd chemistry batteries. Li-Ion batteries also tend to be more
expensive to buy and replace.!

So do you think this is a good thing over the previous Nimh batteries being that replacement is more expensive?

In a perfect world I would like to see a diving light using 13.5W Li-Ion, Long throw LED lamps with adjustable spread. This combo would make a perfect lamp. It would be possible with LED technology to even have the lamp in the battery compartment with fiberoptic cable transfering the light to a reverse reflector in the hand mount with adjustable focus and interchangable filters. My wish for the new year LOL!

given how fast technology is moving the best thing would be to wait this one out. at that rate il never be happy

 

[JimC]

The main disadvantage of Li-ion battery packs is that they loose ~20% of capacity per year, irregardless of use.

A properly maintained and designed NiMH pack could EASILY last 5-10 years.
A properly maintained and designed Li-ion pack will require replacement in 2-4 years.

Look at how often you have to replace the damn pack in your cell phone or laptop. I see two advantages to Li-ion over NiMH.
- An advantage for extreme dives that require a more predictable battery. Ei, less than 0.1% of divers.
- Potentially improvement in life and ease of use from poorly designed NiMH multi-string packs (9ah/13.5ah). But since you have to replace the Li-ion every few years, its still cheaper to run NiMH and replace them every few years when the poor design starts to kill the pack.

Conclusion: Li-ion is just more expencive to save a few grams.


My perfect world light would be a can-less carbon battery with an LED lamp all on a goodman handle. It would be about the size of an 18W hid+balast, throw about the same light and run for about 10 hours between charges. 5 years or so away, I would say.

 

[SangP]

Hi Spoon,

Li-Ion may more expensive but think of the advantages... a 9.6 Amp Li-Ion 21 Watt HID weights in at 5.8 lbs.(2.6 kg.) 2.5 lbs. (1.1 kg) negative.
Whereas a 9 Amp NIMH Twist Focus 21 Watt HID is at
Dry Weight 7 lbs.(3.2kg) 3 lbs(1.36 kg) Negitive
It weights 2lbs less but cost $200 more...

Li-Ion batteries will typically provide 30% - 40% more than NiMH batteries of the same capacity (measured in mAh - mili-amp-hours).

For someone like me who has to travel to dive, the less weight the better, and very simply almost every mobile phone is using Li-Ion. Other than price the one thing you might have to worry about is Li-Ion batteries are explosive...

Here's some info on these batteries:
http://www.greenbatteries.com/libafa.html#Advantage of Li-ion

Cheers,

SangP

 

[JimC]

The main reason they use Li-poly in a cell phone is because they can shape them into a flat rectangular shape. Li-ion are a different beast than Li-ion and like NiMH have to be in a "battery" like cylinder shape. Laptops get Li-ion them because they are expensive to begin with and consumers really fuss over weight, or Li-poly because they can make the whole laptop smaller.

Oh, and they get to charge you $300 for a 6 cell replacement battery.

Li-ion: 110-160 Wh/kg
Li-poly: 100-130 Wh/kg
NiMH: 60-120 Wh/kg

Li-poly have about twice the energy density / space than Li-ion and NiMH due to shape restrictions.
The control circuit required for Li-* consume some of the energy, slightly reducing there energy density advantage.