2 valves per tank, why?!

[high/baric]

No dive training organization in the US is in the business of allowing or prohibiting people to do anything, whether above or below 40m. But if you want to travel to Europe for the equivalent of Dutch Springs with a 200' deep end and actual SCUBA police, more power to you.

Yes, I mean of course guided dives. Every PADI shop I have dived with in the past has been very clear about it: if you have only OW cert you can only join the group going to 18m max, if you have AOW you can join the one going to 30m max. In fact I have never seen an op that would arrange dives below 30m, but that may be because the volume of people who have the required cert for that is very small. Granted that I'm not familiar with your system, but I seriously doubt a PADI affiliated dive shop would guide an OW level diver to 50m if they just ask for it even in the US. And since I don't think the OP mentioned anyone forcibly confiscating his dive computer to check how deep he went, I think it's a moot point to argue how deep you can or cannot go by yourself. Going below 40m on air and without training is reckless and irresponsible regardless of what the law says (this is my opinion, you may disagree and have the right to). Matters of principle are a different topic entirely ("the government has no business telling me not to risk my life" and all that) and if this about principle it's not a debate I am willing to get into. Bottom line, I see nothing wrong with aforementioned rules, back here in Finland the people I know don't do deep diving without proper training and most use two first stages (although in the form of double tanks and an isolation manifold) even though no law requires it, so it would be in no way different to what I usually do.

 

[Stoo]

They're not uncommon here in the Great Lakes. My wife wears one... a steel 80 with an H-valve. She runs two regulators. The advantage in our minds is that if a reg freezes, she can shut it down and avoid too much excitement. She inflates her wing from the main one, and her drysuit from the secondary. Since her suit is her primary buoyancy control device, this split shifts the airflow from the inflator away from the reg she's breathing. Below 70' or so, water temps are in the 39° - 42° range year-round.

Think of them as a poor man's doubles, or in her case, a tiny woman's doubles. The redundancy isn't as good as doubles, but she literally weighs 98 pounds, so doubles aren't really a great choice for her. (Mostly because I'd have to carry the damn things everywhere...)

 

[Dr. Lecter]

since I don't think the OP mentioned anyone forcibly confiscating his dive computer to check how deep he went, I think it's a moot point to argue how deep you can or cannot go by yourself

Really? Seems clear enough to me that's exactly what occurs there. Their mud puddle, their rules...but I can see lots of reasons not to put up with anywhere exhibiting that attitude.

[after the first dive and while staging the second dive] a control officer came around to check gauges (without additional (teck) certification you are forbidden to go deeper than 40m) and my friend then saw my single first stage and immediately threw a piece of clothing over it

 

[high/baric]

Really? Seems clear enough to me.

Okay, fair enough. I missed that, probably because I use a computer to measure depth, not a gauge. Still, I find it a little odd reason to shun them. Sure, if you absolutely have to go deep without the training for it, that place is probably not for you. Just like Indonesia is not for you if you absolutely must have your daily fig of marijuana. I don't have a problem with either so I don't see the issue. I do get you in that it probably is not worth a trip from the US just for the diving. But someone might be in the vicinity on holiday and I suspect even a few Americans might appreciate a chance at a quality dive, even with all the outrageous rules

Still hoping the OP will write a more detailed report!

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I don't agree with a mandate to have two regs on one tank. There are much better ways of doing things besides that. I see several potential problems with such a set up. First off, with the mandate they don't make it clear what type of regs to use. If someone has a cold water sealed diaphragm reg as opposed to two unsealed flow through piston designs who do you think will fair better in a freeflow?
If one piston freezes then the the other might, and if the buddy has two then they might and the whole thing goes down the shi__er.
Then, what about trying to work valves in a drysuit with heavy undergarments and thick gloves? I have a bad shoulder and valves are something I can't get to no matter what with my right arm. I would be better off diving a tank upside down so I could reach behind me down low to work a valve (but I'm sure there some law against it). With the tank right side up I would have to slip my rig off and get it in front of me to work it. By that time a single would be about empty. With a single tank at 30 or 40 meters and a freeflow, even if you manage to get the bad reg turned off how much gas are you going to have left for your ascent? How much gas will your buddy have? Having a second reg on one tank also presents an opportunity for more failure points directed at one gas source.
If they are going to go all nanny totalitarianist on people and stick them with laws and fines then they need to rethink their laws. If they're going to stick people with laws and fines for just trying to go out and have fun diving then at least have the rules make sense.

Personally, I would use a single high quality cold water sealed diaphragm reg on a single tank large enough to make sure of ample gas supply with a slung pony at least 30 or 40 cf with same or similar reg.
Or, a set of doubles w/isolation manifold with the aforementioned regs and no pony needed (I wouldn't be able to use that - bad shoulder, but others could)
People here are diving in lakes they have to cut through the ice with chain saws for Christ's sake and don't seem to have any problems like they think they have over there.

And as Dr. Lecter said, you wonder why people from US don't go there. We constantly fight against people who try to impose their high and mighty progressive elitist crap on us. That's why the US is here, for free minded people to get away from countries that have nonsensical rules.

 

[high/baric]

So it is a matter of principle (at least to a degree). I can appreciate that, but don't think it is worth discussing (because people don't tend to change their principles). Suffice to say, I don't find them checking that you follow their rules and sanctioning you for breaking them any different from someone checking your ticket in public transportation and sanctioning you if you don't have one. But yeah, debates over matters of principle tend to get people upset and be a waste of time, so I'm not going any further down that road. But your point in the reliability of the double valve tank is valid and I wonder if the regulations at this particular dive site don't allow an alternate setup with a pony tank, as it would most likely be safer. Perhaps the OP would have information on this?

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I don't find them checking that you follow their rules and sanctioning you for breaking them any different from someone checking your ticket in public transportation and sanctioning you if you don't have one

To me it is slightly different. Jumping on a bus and not paying is different from going to a beach and doing a dive. The bus is a structured environment and they run it, so to make sure it's paid they charge you for a ticket.
A beach is free and belongs to everyone so they can't tell you what to do. To us, that would be like telling somebody they can't be out in the sun because it could give you skin cancer and you'll get fined if you're caught out in it, or perhaps charging you for the sun because it came up in the morning. Some things they just can't own and control. The biggest thing being our personal freedoms, and as it relates to diving and gear: any gear or configuration or style we want no matter how ridiculous it may seem to somebody else.
At least that's how we see it.

 

[Max Speed]

There is nothing wrong with a Y or H valve setup and everything to recommend it. You can take Intro to Cave in an H valve configuration. To my knowledge there has never been a cave fatality due to that configuration. If you want double dip tubes you can find that in an old Beauchat Y valve.

 

[high/baric]

A beach is free and belongs to everyone so they can't tell you what to do. To us, that would be like charging you for the sun because it came up in the morning. Some things they just can't own and control.

Or the whole quarry / area could be private property of a company maintaining it and providing services to divers, which is what I actually assumed from some of the things said in the thread. In which case it would be in their interest to monitor safety for liability purposes. Of course I don't know how it is, will have to check through the thread again. Maybe one of the people who have dived there will chime in come afternoon in Europe

 

[Storker]

As far as I know, the law in France is that any diver that 'take charge" of another diver has to have two redundant circuits: this means a double output, 2 first stages and 2 second stages. Wether you find it "too much" or "not" is irrelevant. It is a part of "code du sport", so it is in the law .

Hm. I dived in France earlier this summer. Although all the tanks had Y valves, I never noticed our guides using two single stages. I'll have to double-check my footage to be 100% sure, though. And on one of the dives, our guide was very clearly "taking charge" of another diver, since we were told that the third customer was on his first deep dive so we should just follow them and otherwise dive as an independent buddy pair as we were used to. We happily mounted our standard single tank configured regs (one primary, two secondaries) on one of the tank outputs and was never admonished that this was in any way "bad".

OTOH, this was a comfortably laidback op that let competent divers do their thing and didn't try to hand-hold anyone who didn't clearly need that.