2 recent deaths where snorkelers happened to be using full face masks

[scagrotto]

The two wearing the full face snorkel somehow I don’t think is coincidence.

I wouldn't reach that conclusion just based on 2 data points, but there's been a fair amount of anecdotal evidence that many others have had a problem, or at least thought they had a problem. If you look at the people who have difficulties I'd bet they have a number of things in common, and the masks are just one of them.

There is a known issue with Chinese knock-off masks.

So what is this "known issue" and where's the evidence for it? We repeatedly see the problems with getting reliable information when a diver dies, so who's collecting and publicly releasing the information that would establish that there's a problem.

they were designed so there was not a large "dead space". Inhale brought in fresh air and exhale got air out of the system.

I haven't seen one of the FF snorkel masks in person, but I've seen pictures and info about the design. I've also used a respirator mask, which is basically what's inside the FFM (minus the filters, of course). It's not exactly a new, or difficult, technology, and looks like it should work fairly well. Based on my experience with respirator masks I wouldn't think the dead air space is significantly different than with a regular snorkel.

 

[tridacna]

I wouldn't reach that conclusion just based on 2 data points, but there's been a fair amount of anecdotal evidence that many others have had a problem, or at least thought they had a problem. If you look at the people who have difficulties I'd bet they have a number of things in common, and the masks are just one of them.

So what is this "known issue" and where's the evidence for it? We repeatedly see the problems with getting reliable information when a diver dies, so who's collecting and publicly releasing the information that would establish that there's a problem.


I haven't seen one of the FF snorkel masks in person, but I've seen pictures and info about the design. I've also used a respirator mask, which is basically what's inside the FFM (minus the filters, of course). It's not exactly a new, or difficult, technology, and looks like it should work fairly well. Based on my experience with respirator masks I wouldn't think the dead air space is significantly different than with a regular snorkel.

So you’ve never seen one nor have you done ANY research yourself about them but you sanctimoniously lecture to us about lack of evidence.

A cursory search on the net reveals much about this:

“The problem, in my humble opinion, is with knockoffs. Companies that copied the basic look without including all of the safety features. Carbon dioxide build-up has been cited as a concern with full face mask. Since the air you exhale has a larger percentage of carbon dioxide than the air we normally breathe in, it should not be inhaled again. The full face mask volume does not allow the full exchange of gases within the mask. The design of some masks is such that the air exhaled is removed from the mask directly. Therefore it is not inhaled again. Most of the knock-off designs do not have these features.

To properly work as a mask, there must be a waterproof seal. Generally with a dive or snorkeling mask, if water leaks in, we will just need to clear it, The worst that happens is that the water stings our eyes. In this usage, a leak into the mask risk water getting into your airway. Therefore the seal is very critical. You really need a good quality of material to get a seal that will consistently work. The cheap mask will not be able to use the more expensive materials and keep such a low price.”

I’ve used a Seaview extensively. Never had a problem yet.

 

[flyboy08]

I was surprised how many tourist I saw in Coz this past December using these snorkel masks..

 

[Rooster59]

Different article w/ video-
Recent snorkel deaths prompts investigation into full-faced snorkel masks

 

[outofofficebrb]

The article mentions the possible issue of unforeseen carbon dioxide buildup within the mask.

Another factor may be the population or person that is more likely to choose to use this product. Are they older? Less fit? Already uncomfortable in the water to begin with (hence choosing a FFM instead of a traditional snorkel and mask) that increases their likelihood to drown? How are their swimming abilities? (I know that if carbon monoxide buildup happens you can black out and swimming abilities don’t play a role.)Do they have a pre-existing condition or a contraindication that would significantly pose a problem if that carbon dioxide buildup happened? Meaning, is it possible that drowning was the actual reason they died but was another primary health issue that had carbon dioxide buildup as a trigger?

So many different possibilities

 

[Scott from LongIsland]

I don't recall where but I read somewhere that these masks can sometimes be tough to take off due to the seal. That could cause a whole host of problems, especially if combined with CO2 buildup

 

[tridacna]

I don't recall where but I read somewhere that these masks can sometimes be tough to take off due to the seal. That could cause a whole host of problems, especially if combined with CO2 buildup

Not true. Completely the opposite. Seal is really light not tight. Difficulty with mask removal is taking off straps - quite easy if you practise a few times.

 

[Scott from LongIsland]

Not true. Completely the opposite. Seal is really light not tight. Difficulty with mask removal is taking off straps - quite easy if you practise a few times.

Okay sure...but, the type of person using this is not likely to be practicing or using this on a lot of occasions. possible yes, but unlikely. If you have to practice a few times, that doesn't sound too easy, especially for a novice that is nervous to begin with

 

[dmaziuk]

Meh, My offsum sykick pahwahz: http://mauinow.com/files/2017/08/Screen-Shot-2017-08-31-at-3.26.03-PM.png tells me about a dozen visitors will die snorkeling on Maui this year, and with the growing popularity of FFMs I predict at least two more will be wearing 'em. Gotta be CO2 build-up I'm sure.

 

[tridacna]

Liars, damn liars and statisticians. Some good extrapolation there. Looks to me like the trend has started to drop. Maybe all these FFMs had a beneficial effect. Who knows?

Seriously, how can you extrapolate future FFM deaths from those numbers? "Unintended immersion". Fall off a cruise ship or a cliff? Just how many snorkelers used FFMs vs regular snorkels? How about poor quality snorkel vests or perhaps an absence of those?