2 more upper keys dive fatalities, 8/6/2011

[dumpsterDiver]

1


2. Overweighing so you can stay down with the lobsters is idiotic. I guess they succeeded there!.

FYI all good lobster divers who dive in currents are going to be overweighted on the bottom. That is simply how it is done in a strong current. It is necessary for the diver to be negative so he can work the hole and not get blown all over.

Generally when a diver is wearing a decent amount of wetsuit, the wetsuit compression at depth is sufficient to allow the diver to work the bottom in a negative condition. So in cool or cold water, the bug diver needs little or no excess lead if working at any depth.

On the other hand, someone diving in the keys in august may be wearing a dive skin and possibly no compressible wetsuit. Under these consitions, the diver WILL need to carry an extra 8-10 lbs of lead (over and above what PADI would say to use in their recommendations).

Overweighting to this degree and in these conditions is neither unsafe nor idiotic, but is simply necessary to work effectively.

Soory but that is how bug diving in a current is done

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Yeah, I recall that now. I'm at a loss again. 50 dives drifting in our area makes for a savy diver in the relativlely benign conditions of the upper Keys.

I think I'll kick back and wait to hear what happened. When we lost Nikki Cuomo in Jupiter a couple years ago, it took a while for the facts to surface.

What facts emerged in that case? As I recall it is a complete mystery.

She went down, saw another diver for a minute or so, proceeded to dive solo in a strong current and neither she, nor any of her gear (with the exception of a loaded speargun) were ever found.

 

[DoNotDstrb]

FYI all good lobster divers who dive in currents are going to be overweighted on the bottom. That is simply how it is done in a strong current. It is necessary for the diver to be negative so he can work the hole and not get blown all over.

Sorry, bud, but I disagree..... I caught my limit both days this year off Palm Beach in 80-90ft .... If you dove there during this mini season you know that the current was ripping. I wore the same 6 lbs I always wear with a 1mm full -- not much to compress there. Generally my BC is empty and I trim with my lungs. If I want to sink, I exhale..... No, I'm not glued to the bottom as if I were carrying 10 lbs of extra lead.... but no need..... I had a reef hook, but I only used it once during the 2 days......

Doing something inherently unsafe to facilitate a recreational activity like catching bugs is idiotic. IF --- and BIG IF you absolutely must overweight..... carry some secondary buoyancy like a 50lb lift bag/reel.... of course, if you're OOA, the bag is as useless as the BC. The bag/reel is a good idea when drift diving anyways... unless you're the guy with the float..... which they DID NOT HAVE at all.

 

[=C=]

Today on CH16 the following was heard!!
Diver missing off Bahia Honda Bridge(found and all is well)
Sportsfisher boat grounded on Grecian rocks
Coast Guard helicopters searching for missing divers(details unknown)

The next days were just as bad... I heard at least two unk vessel in distress calls before I hit the water... and more on the way in.

 

[Splitlip]

What facts emerged in that case? As I recall it is a complete mystery.

She went down, saw another diver for a minute or so, proceeded to dive solo in a strong current and neither she, nor any of her gear (with the exception of a loaded speargun) were ever found.

I'm talking the facts leading up to TG reporting her missing. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I'm talking the facts leading up to TG reporting her missing. Sorry for the confusion.

Thanks I wondered if anyone found out anything concrete about the accident itself.

 

[openmindOW]

My LDS had a problem with a newly-received BC - sorry, I don't remember the brand. One weight pocket was STUCK. We all looked at it and couldn't figure it out. After I removed, checked out, and replaced the other weight pocket, it stuck, too.

Good point.

Not all weight-integrated BCDs have weight-ditch systems that are equally easy to use.

 

[jupitermermaid]

FYI all good lobster divers who dive in currents are going to be overweighted on the bottom. That is simply how it is done in a strong current. It is necessary for the diver to be negative so he can work the hole and not get blown all over.

Generally when a diver is wearing a decent amount of wetsuit, the wetsuit compression at depth is sufficient to allow the diver to work the bottom in a negative condition. So in cool or cold water, the bug diver needs little or no excess lead if working at any depth.

On the other hand, someone diving in the keys in august may be wearing a dive skin and possibly no compressible wetsuit. Under these consitions, the diver WILL need to carry an extra 8-10 lbs of lead (over and above what PADI would say to use in their recommendations).

Overweighting to this degree and in these conditions is neither unsafe nor idiotic, but is simply necessary to work effectively.

Soory but that is how bug diving in a current is done

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you on this one. I consider myself a fairly competent lobster diver, and there is NO WAY I'm going to overweight myself when bugging! For one thing, I don't want to destroy the reef while my overweighted body is lumbering around on top of the reef. I want to float up and stay off the reef to not disturb it. If the current if ripping I'll try to hold onto the rock the lobster is under. Also, I'm blowing through a lot more air than normal when bugging by kicking to cover a lot of area, so I don't need to waste more by being overweighted, especially by 8-10 lbs! To me, THAT is idiotic and dangerous!

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you on this one. I consider myself a fairly competent lobster diver, and there is NO WAY I'm going to overweight myself when bugging! For one thing, I don't want to destroy the reef while my overweighted body is lumbering around on top of the reef. I want to float up and stay off the reef to not disturb it. If the current if ripping I'll try to hold onto the rock the lobster is under. Also, I'm blowing through a lot more air than normal when bugging by kicking to cover a lot of area, so I don't need to waste more by being overweighted, especially by 8-10 lbs! To me, THAT is idiotic and dangerous!

Read my original post again and think about it.

I had assumed that my description was sufficeint, but apparently not. I said that a diver needs to be 8-10 lbs negative to work a hole in a strong current.

This is often accomplished via suit compression, so the diver needs to carry zero extra lead. 90% of the time (or more) the diver is drifting along neutrally bouyant when scanning for bugs from above, then when a lobster is spotted up ahead, (down current) the diver begins to vent air to allow them to work the hole in a negative condition.

It does involve a lot of inflating and deflating of the BC since when you leave the hole, you need to re-establish neutral bouyancy. Nowhere in my post did i describe "lumbering around on top of the reef".

As for the previous guy who said that he used a reef hook to hold himself against the current and remained nuetral... well I would like to see a video of that because I need 2 hands to catch ugs and if one was holding a reef hook, I would have a very tough time.

Does it still sound idiotic and dangerous? Hell, when I was a commercial lobster diver, I sometimes would stuff 50-60 lbs of bugs in a bag and that much bugs makes you WAY negative, even if you don't have a lot of lead on.

This kind of diving requires a lot of use of the BC,

 

[DoNotDstrb]

= I said that a diver needs to be 8-10 lbs negative to work a hole in a strong current.

Diving 8-10 lbs negative is a bad idea under ANY circumstances. You should be BARELY negative with a near-empty tank. If that translates to 8-10 lbs negative with a FULL tank -- you need different tanks. I've seen people end up in this situation with AL 100s (worst thing ever invented, IMHO) Usually smaller, muscular people end up so buoyant at the end of a dive with the 100 cu ft blimp on their back that they need that much extra lead.

You are so out of trim in this condition that (forget even safety for a minute) that you end up consuming much more air than needed and your "attitude" in the slipstream is a mess. This is one area where the DIR folks have it right.... (FYI -- no desire to begin yet another DIR/anti-DIR thread -- they have some stuff dead-on and other stuff is somewhat silly, yet none of them ever die even with the whacked out stuff they do, so go from there....)

"Back in the day" before BCs (yes, been diving THAT long), choosing the right tank to achieve proper trim was paramount. Now (at least outside the DIR crowd), that has become somewhat of a neglected skill. Personally, I dive with 12L steel tanks (about 102 cu ft at 3500 PSI).... with a 1mm full, empty BC, and 6 lbs, I'm about 4lbs negative at the beginning and near neutral with 500 PSI.