2 drysuit questions

[Kane(adian)]

2 questions:

I have heard things about drysuits and argon. Why is argon used rather than regular air?

Although I am a new diver, I look forward to eventually doing some wrecks, now I am curious what the wreck divers out their prefer in the line of suits. Do you use neoprene, or shell?

Just curious, getting to the point where equipment purchase is on the (near?) horizon, and want to buy things to suit me for a while.

Thanks for any help.

 

[Rick Murchison]

(1)Argon has better insulating qualities than air.
(2)I prefer a neoprene drysuit around wrecks - less likely to get punctured.
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I must say I've never been in *really* cold water like where you are - down here 50 degrees is *cold* - so there may be considerations relative to the water temp that would dictate a different rig than what we use down here in the backwoods of Lower Alabama.
Rick

 

[Lost Yooper]

Argon is cozy. Luxfer makes a nice LP 14CF bottle that works nicely for argon.

I'd say that 90% of the wreck divers I see up here are using a shell suit of some sort. Common suits are the Vikings, DUI's, Whites, and a few Harveys. I'm an odd ball with my Abyss Pro Kevlar suit. I haven't seen another diver use one yet -- though my buddy has one ordered now.
I've had neoprene suits and just didn't care for the lack of flexibility I had. They didn't keep me as warm at depth (keep in mind I hate being cold), and I needed more weight on a belt. I've seen a newer neoprene suit that is using a different type of neoprene or something which doesn't collapse as I recall. It looked tough, but the thickness and ridgedity seems like it would lack flexibility.

I like the shells because I can add or subtract underwear to compensate for different temperatures. There are a few suits out there that are extremely tough like the Abyss and the DUI. The Viking's big advantage is their ease of repair right there on the boat. In addition, the Vikings are notorious for keeping you DRY. I like neoprene seals because they are warmer and tougher, but they don't seal quite as well as latex most of the time. The real down side for shells is the expense. You'll probably regret getting a cheap shell suit, and good ones retail near $2000+.

Well, good luck. BTW, what part of Canada are you from? I dive with some guys out of Sault Ste. Marie Onterio once in a while.

Mike

 

[Kane(adian)]

Look at this! Two replies before I am finished reading the rest of the messages on the board! <picture cheerleaders here> YAY SCUBABOARD!

Thanks for the answer on the argon. I bet just breaking open a few fluorescent light bulbs isn't good enough though huh?

One of the considerations I have to take when thinking about suits and what not is that something made in Canada would be beneficial. When the dollar is so low, anything from the states is automatically 150% of the sticker price, and trying to get started diving on a student budget...enough said.

I have looked at the Abyss suits on the net (brought to my attention by LostYooper(I think)I like the idea of the kevlar on the Abyss suits. I have seen one of the Whites in action (on the instuctor, which is always a good selling point in my mind), I have also been looking at Bare suits. If I remember correctly, all of these have addresses near eachother. (Bare in Langley(burb of Vancouver), Abyss in Vancouver (?) and White's in Saanich, a ferry ride, and a little drive, outside of Victoria).

I like the idea of the shell, for the versatility, but ultimately, want something that will keep me warm and DRY, a suit that needs constant repairs is only going to be a pain in the butt.

As for where I live, I am in Saskatchewan at the moment, but will soon be going to get edJEEcated in Vancouver, woo hoo ocean...

 

[SubMariner]

One of my former students (now an Instructor himself) has a self-donning Abyss trilam that he loves to death. He spends most of his time diving the Great Lakes & the St. Lawrence, so I don't think we have any issues about "not cold enough, eh?!"

Both Whites and Abyss are well known Canadian makes. But don't forget Brooks and Wardell.

Since I am no longer in TGWN, my options on drysuits were a little less pricey. I currently have a DUI trilam custom 350TLS with Kevlar knee pads. However, my original suit in TGWN was an older Wardell 1/4" neoprene back entry.

Neoprene is less expensive, but damn you really have to weight with that suit! And you move like Frankenstein's monster or the Mummy.... no flexibility. I also like the wider range of diving I can do with the trilam; you can layer as much or as little on under it as you like. This is especially helpful for water that is too cold for, say, a 1/8" wet suit, but too warm for the next level up.

Good luck in your quest!

~SubMariner~

 

[Okiecaver]

I'm inclined towards another Viking ( I have a Viking Xtreme) or an Abyss Atlantis. I use Argon almost all the time and if you use it right, it's a great help.

The thing about argon that no one mentions is that you have to purge as much air out of your suit as possible. What I do is I suit up, do the squat and press bit, then get in the water and let the pressure vacume pack me in. Then I'm ready to finish gearing up.

I remember someone saying they opened their exhaust valve to auto and put the nozzel to a shop vac over it. Extreme but effective.

Dive safe
Brock

 

[large_diver]

K,

I pirated this list from scubadiving.com.......

FOAM NEOPRENE
Advantages--
- Less cost
- Little or no undergarments needed, unless it is particularly cold.
- If flooded, not all buoyancy is lost.

Possible disadvantages include:
- Both buoyancy and insulation value are reduced at depth.
- More weight may be needed to achieve proper trim.
- Heavier and bulkier than other dry suits.
- Slow drying.

SHELL SUITS
Advantages include:
- Light weight.
- Pack easily in a small space.
- Quick drying.
- Can provide the greatest insulation, therefore warmth, by layering undergarments.

Possible disadvantages include:
- More weight may be needed to achieve proper trim.
- Looser fit to accommodate undergarments or the lack of material stretch may make for a bulky suit, thus allowing more air to shift and creating more drag.
- No inherent insulation.

CRUSHED OR SMALL CELL NEOPRENE
Advantages may include:
- Performance and fit are more like a wetsuit.
- Extra weight is not needed.
- Material is very rugged.
- Easier to repair.

Possible disadvantages include:
- Greater cost.
- Slow drying


Check the link for more tips and suit ratings
http://scubadiving.com/gear/18drysuits/

 

[Kane(adian)]

Submariner...

Never heard of either of those companies, but I will check them out.

Okie...

Is a shop-vac part of that guys dive equipment? Imagine getting on the plane with that in your luggage.

l_d...

Thanks for the summary, checking the link.

 

[Greg G.]

I can't add to the suit answers, they were pretty good, except that I used a neoprene dry suit when I was diving in cold water, but if I ever got another dry suit, it would not be a neoprene. They're ok, but I don't like the changing buoyancy/insulating factors as the dive progresses. Argon is 3 times denser than air, so it insulates better. I tried it for a while when I was diving in Puget Sound, WA, water temp 45-55, and frankly with the type of diving I do, I did not notice any difference in warmth. It's mostly used by tech divers who do long deco stops in cold water, then it makes a big difference. I'm not a tech diver, I only do non-deco dives of usually no more than 60-70ft.

Originally posted by Kane(adian)
2 questions:

I have heard things about drysuits and argon. Why is argon used rather than regular air?

Although I am a new diver, I look forward to eventually doing some wrecks, now I am curious what the wreck divers out their prefer in the line of suits. Do you use neoprene, or shell?

Just curious, getting to the point where equipment purchase is on the (near?) horizon, and want to buy things to suit me for a while.

Thanks for any help.

 

[Bob3]

Argon becomes a necessity in your drysuit if you're diving with helium in your breathing mix. Helium transfers heat away from you much faster than air.
Argon is slightly better than air for less heat conductivity, and then your underwear type makes a difference. Thinsulate is hard to purge so you probably won't notice much of a "real" advantage over plain old air.
I find slipping an extra layer of polypro undies on preferable to messing with another bottle to hang off my butt.
Your mileage may vary.:cold: