(15 APR 04) Have you ever been close to meeting your maker while diving

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baitedstorm:
... but I now know just how dangerous it was for me @138 feet with a 33% mix.

I dont blame the dive op or the instructor (although many disagree with that). I do believe my dive buddy shouldn't have left me on that deep dive the way he did, but ultimately, I chose to dive and I am responsible for whatever actions I take. Ignorance is no excuse.
I still have dreams about this day now, but I'm hoping to use it as a teaching tool for others. My lessons learned,know who your diving with and all the details of the dive, and for God sake, when that little voice says not to, make sure you listen to it.

Sorry this ended up being a whole lot longer than I intended it to be..

Baitedstorm, you are one lucky person. If you truly were on Nitrox and not Trimix, as you probably now know, the MOD of 33% nitrox is 107 ft using a PPO of 1.4 but you were at 138fsw giving you a PPO of 1.71 ... you should have gone through convulsions at that point.

I strongly recommend reporting this incident to PADI and hope you take a Nitrox course ... with NAUI. :10:
 
cmgmg:
giving you a PPO of 1.71 ... you should have gone through convulsions at that point.

oxtox isn't quite as simple as "exceed 1.6 and you will convulse".

in one study at 50 fsw on O2 (2.5 ppO2) at rest, with a 120 minute exposure, 16 out of 40 divers convulsed with a time to onset of convulsions from 12-69 minutes, and with 3 divers without any oxtox symptoms.

at 1.7 you are running a probably unacceptable risk, particularly if you aren't at rest, but it isn't a guaranteed convulsion...
 
I had a pretty hairy dive in Bali, and it was my own stupid fault too. It was the last dive of the trip and so far everything had been just amazing, I had seen everything I had came for including a fabulous long shallow dive on top of a sea mount with mantas and, on another dive, a huge mola mola (oceanic sunfish).

We were waiting out our surface interval in a sheltered bay on the southern end of Lembongan, an island to the southeast of the main Balinese island. I was looking into the water when I saw a little purple bag, and then another, and then dozens, if not hundred of these little purple air sacks. I asked the guide what they were and he replied "Portuguese Man-of-War". Yikes. Needless to say, the guide decides not to dive the southern end of the island. Fair enough, eh? Nobody wants to go diving with deadly stinging hydroids!

So we motor for about 30 minutes to the north end of Lembongan and into the straights, planning to do one of the exhilarating drifts that Bali is so justly famous for. I have serious misgivings about the dive but, whilst there is no sign of our Portuguese friends, I am badly spooked and not keen at all. I decide that if the guide says it's cool then it should be all right and I will do the dive. After all, he's the guy with the local knowledge, right?

The guide gives the OK and, after a briefing, we splash and descend for a ripping drift down the channel. The current is so fast that it feels like we are flying. The dive isn't too deep, maybe fifteen metres, so we have a good fifty minutes to an hour of dive time during which time we probably drifted a fair few miles. As I am getting ready to ascend to my safety stop, I have my customary look toward the surface for obstructions, boats and the like and there, above me, are dozens of Portuguese Man-of-War. Now, what can I do? I am lucky that I am wearing a full wetsuit, I also have gloves in my BCD pocket, but my entire head and neck are exposed. I am down to eighty bar and it's only a matter of time before I have to surface. Visibility is excellent, maybe thirty metres plus, and I can see the dive boat drifting with me. I know that the tendrils of PMOW extend some distance underwater so I stay at around ten metres and start swimming toward the boat, my computer still has me within my NDL so I decide to forgo the safety stop and go straight for the ladder hoping that I don't get stung on the way. I was very relieved when I reached the ladder and dragged myself onto the boat without being stung, more so when the boat crew pointed to the long strands of stinging tendrils that were stuck to the back of my wetsuit and BCD. They picked the worst of them off with a knife while the boat returned to the shore. I kept my gear on the whole way and, when we arrived, me and my rig went under a very hot shower while I carefully removed my equipment making sure that there were no stingers on me.

All in all, we were all very fortunate, PMOW stings have been known to be fatal. Amazingly, nobody got stung, even though some divers were wearing shorties.

The lesson I learnt was simple but important. If you aren't happy, for any reason, call the dive. It doesn't matter how far you have travelled or how much money you have spent, if it isn't right, you must call the dive.

If you want to read about another near death experience I had, in Thailand, you can look here.
 
fgray1:
Have you ever been close to meeting your maker while diving
Well... yes.
It's one of the places where I am closest, and one of the principle reasons I dive.
----
I think you mean close calls, though... been dead once, been close several times, but all had to do with "other than diving" activities.
Rick
 
Originally Posted by fgray1
Have you ever been close to meeting your maker while diving

Rick Murchison:
Well... yes.
It's one of the places where I am closest, and one of the principle reasons I dive.
Rick

I was beginning to think it was just me and some kind of nitrogen induced altered state but I get the same feeling Uncle Ricky, maybe that is part of the addiction to diving :06:
Loretta
 
lamont:
oxtox isn't quite as simple as "exceed 1.6 and you will convulse".

in one study at 50 fsw on O2 (2.5 ppO2) at rest, with a 120 minute exposure, 16 out of 40 divers convulsed with a time to onset of convulsions from 12-69 minutes, and with 3 divers without any oxtox symptoms.

at 1.7 you are running a probably unacceptable risk, particularly if you aren't at rest, but it isn't a guaranteed convulsion...

Lamont,

Were you quoting me as stating "exceed 1.6 and you will convulse"? I said "you should have gone through convulsions at that point".

I'm not familiar with that particular study but I'm willing to accept the results on face value. Your point is that it's not "a guaranteed convulsion" ... A POINT I AGREE ON. Perhaps, I need to revise my statement to "you coulda (shouda, wouda, etc.) gone through convulsions at point".

Granted exceeding 1.6 won't automatically cause convulsions, Do you, at least, agree that at 1.7, the dive is contrary to most accepted limits of PPO using NITROX, namely:

1. The NOAA limit for nitrox diving at 1.6 ata is 45 minutes for normal diving and 120 minutes for exceptional exposure diving (source: http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/medical/articles/article.asp?articleid=35)
2. PADI & NAUI has chosen 1.4

Bear in mind, BaitedStorm stated "This time I weighted my self much better and all seemed fine. We descend normally as I watch my computer I'm into total disbielf at our depth. 110,120 125, 130, 133 was the last depth I remembered although my computer had me at 138. I remember just looking around and thinking everything was pretty damn funny my computer is going off and there I was thinking, I cant believe this thing even plays music. I was all by myslf (so much for my dive buddy). Had it not been for one divemaster that came back for me, I dont think I would have been here to tell my story. He brought me up a few feet and I was back to myself. He took me up to 75 feet where we hung for just over 5 minutes and where I ran out of air, and then another deco at 20 for 5 more minutes. I now know how bad buddy breathing sucks. "

SOUNDS like an anxiety-filled dive to me ... anxiety--->heart rate increase = higher risk of oxtox.... particularly for someone who's never been trained on Nitrox nor was she ever comfortable with the dive profile.

BaitedStorm gave me the impression that she was diving with tech divers (like yourself ... I believe) so I'll assume they're knew what they were doing and were on some other gas (or was everyone else exceeding the 1.4 or 1.6 level?).

Maybe, I should have quoted Dives4funoften "Nitrox at 138???? ..... You could have died!" but then someone would have been pointed out that "death is quite as simple as "Nitrox at 138 and you will die" and would go on citing a recent study done with 100 divers and only x amount have died? Hmmm? :wink:
 
Divingnthedark:
Originally Posted by fgray1
Have you ever been close to meeting your maker while diving



I was beginning to think it was just me and some kind of nitrogen induced altered state but I get the same feeling Uncle Ricky, maybe that is part of the addiction to diving :06:
Loretta

Ditto, course it could also be the nitrogen speaking ... :cheers:
 
i read "you should have gone through convulsions" very literally as it being guaranteed 100% of the time. i'm a little uncomfortable with stating it that way because it isn't literally true, and i worry that someone might think that if you hit 1.7 10 times and live that you're good to keep doing it all the time that way, when it might be on the 100th dive to 1.7 ppO2 that it finally catches up to you...
 
lamont:
i read "you should have gone through convulsions" very literally as it being guaranteed 100% of the time. i'm a little uncomfortable with stating it that way because it isn't literally true, and i worry that someone might think that if you hit 1.7 10 times and live that you're good to keep doing it all the time that way, when it might be on the 100th dive to 1.7 ppO2 that it finally catches up to you...

It's tough to be liberal isn't it ... the elections are lost, gay rights becomes an issue, the abortion issue ... opps you meant literal :wink:

I understand your point about the literal truth about oxtox but all throughout diving's rise in popularity, the literal truth has never part of the description. Instead, the general public is given general rules about diving to promote or, perhaps, infuse a heightened level of caution. Case in point, "dive to long and you get the bends"; "hold your breath and you'll get the bends"; or "come up to fast and you get the bends". All of these are not literal truths but to the uninitiated (aka untrained), it raises one's internal flag that you don't strap on tanks, jump in the water and think you know all about diving.

Same with Nitrox diving and the 1.4 limit. Anyone who gets into any mix other than "normal air" is taught all the basics of DCI and oxygen toxicity. At least, I was under NAUI (GUE's tech book section on Oxygen Chapter 8 was a required reading). Anyone who's properly trained will know that convulsions (or any part of CONVENTID) doesn't automatically happen AND CAN BE DEPENDENT ON THE INDIVIDUAL (I'm not going to cite a specific study). If a certified NITROX diver "might think that if you hit 1.7 10 times and live that you're good to keep doing it all the time that way", then that diver must have been asleep or didn't do the proper requirements in the course.

For the uninitiated diver, general rules of thumb (read ... not literal truths) should be somewhat ambiguous BUT cautionary at the same time. Hence, "if you exceed the 1.4, 1.6 whatever level, you should convulse". On the other hand, if some says "not necessarily" (sounds like a Hertz commercial ...), then you risk embolding a non-certified to do EXACTLY what you're trying to avoid ... exceed the limit since it's not guaranteed.

Sorry for the tirade but I think we shouldn't stick to literal truths ... besides telling everyone that "studies have shown..." will bore them to death. :dozingoff

Now that I think of it I'm revising my statement once again "IF YOU EXCEED A PPO OF 1.4 YOU WILL DIE A HORRIBLE DEATH" .... :death2:

However, if your properly certified in the use of EANx and/or other gases, you could exceed the limits under certain conditions without dying". :wink:
 
cmgmg:
Baitedstorm, you are one lucky person. If you truly were on Nitrox and not Trimix, as you probably now know, the MOD of 33% nitrox is 107 ft using a PPO of 1.4 but you were at 138fsw giving you a PPO of 1.71 ... you should have gone through convulsions at that point.

I strongly recommend reporting this incident to PADI and hope you take a Nitrox course ... with NAUI. :10:
It truly was Nitrox (I shutter even thinking about it now).... I am VERY lucky I didn't die that day. I want to make sure this story stays out there for other divers to read and learn about. I am now currently Nitrox certified, and also an Instructor Canidate. I want divers out there to learn from my tragic mistake and urge people to retell this story to other divers. I'm an extermely strong minded person (those who know me, would agree) not often to fall victim to such stupid behavior. My point here is that if someone like me could actually have let this happen, I fear for my fellow divers who don't nornmally don't question Instructors...

As for reporting this to PADI, what could I say to them? Me, DiveMaster Vickie, was out of her God given mind to dive with bone headed nine finger PADI Instructor. I made the choice, poor choice but still mine, and went out with him, dove with him. I get mad still when I think about it, in fact, insult to injury, my dive buddy that day just started working with their shop as an Instructor (very scarey). I'm certainly open to suggestions as on how to report something that happened so very long ago.
 

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