14yr old came up at end of 2nd open water dive and is now scared

[Lobzilla]

Mask removal for 1 minute in 43 degree water, what's the point? Freezing eyeballs?

I like Dave's post. An excellent teacher gets to the level of the student and communicates at their level.

Parents can be ineffective teachers in some areas. In diving one must depend on their own skills not on a parent.

I would hire Dave or someone with his skill sets with children. I would have all parents and relatives seperate. He needs to be indepentantly skilled. Even if a parent does not say anything there is presure or enabling stuff that goes on even if it is unintentional. Kids want to please parents.

I was a Ski Instructor for years and learned that you teach kids differently than adults. Games and play are excellent techniques to set kids at ease and to build skill sets.

Sounds like you are great parents and are giving your kids great opportunities in life.

Happy Diving.

I agree with the previous comments about appropriate instruction procedures and testing standards.

However, for the 14 year old in question SCUBA training just revealed one important point in life. We all face fears many times in our lives. At this juncture we have to make a decision. Do we allow our fears to control us or do we control our fears? This decision is IMO the most important factor whether we love life or feel out of control and victimized by 'the world'.

Fears bring the percieved or real risk of an activity into our awareness. Then we have to decide whether the (actual) benefit is worth taking the (actual) risk or not. We have to be able to make a clear cut "GO" or "NO GO" decision. Not this coulda shoulda woulda mess that spreads in our society like a virus.

Today he faces the fear to take the mask off, tomorrow to walk up to a pretty girl and say: "Hi, ...", then to speak confidently in front of a crowd, later to stand up when injustice is done to another fellow being, at some point maybe putting his life savings on the table for an idea he believes in, etc.

He is old enough to understand this 'big' issue and old enough to decide whether the wonders of the ocean are worth getting over the mask drill or whether it is time to throw the towel.

Instead of teaching him a SCUBA drill he should be allowed to learn how to deal with life.

 

[Stacelou]

Yes, we have spoken to my son about giving into fear and how this time it's cold water in your face and the next time it's something else. I told him that this can be a time to grab fear by the neck or look back later and regret not doing it. He is more of a risk taker than my oldest which is why this surprised us. I guess you just never know when something unexpected will tap into an unknown fear. We are encouraging him to complete diving even if it's just for the sake of being the one in control of his fears intstead of the other way around. I am one of the people who regret not having support to try things that made me anxious or scared or worried I would fail. My folks just always said "if you don't want to do it, just don't do it", which is great when it comes to peer pressure, but bad when it comes to self doubt/fear keeping you out of sports, social settings etc. So, I'm different, I want me kids to know the confidence of overcoming fear, not the regret of letting it overcome them. There is a line between encouragement and forcing him that I don't want to cross, that's the gray area for me. So I give him alternatives, like waiting til the water is warmer, but I haven't said he can quit. Hope it all works out and he gains confidence in himself through it all and the option to dive with his friend/dad&brother. Thanks again, and I will have my husband ask about the one minute mask rule and why they do it if PADI doesn't require it.

 

[Aaron528]

That 43 deg water is really cold. The old 7mm wetsuit is not going to offer more than 10-15 minutes of protection at best (even it it fits) and the cold bast on the face is a good way to demotivate any new diver. Youngsters will have even shorter term expectations than adults and simply may not have the will to muscle though adverse conditions.

Why not get a referral for the open water dives and have him do them in warm water. That should only take one day, not 3.

I did all my pool work here in the US and did my check out dives in Jamaica. The PADI guidelines state the 5 OW dives are supposed to be done over 2 days, but the shop I did them with was willing to do them all in one day, provided I started very early and was willing to stay out on the boat w/o returning, doing generous surface intervals. If the checkout dives were done at Turks and Caicos, they would also be by boat. Sounds like a lot more fun to do them there in 85+ degree water. I wouldn't go into 43 degree water w/o a drysuit.

 

[boulderjohn]

I did all my pool work here in the US and did my check out dives in Jamaica. The PADI guidelines state the 5 OW dives are supposed to be done over 2 days, but the shop I did them with was willing to do them all in one day, provided I started very early and was willing to stay out on the boat w/o returning, doing generous surface intervals. If the checkout dives were done at Turks and Caicos, they would also be by boat. Sounds like a lot more fun to do them there in 85+ degree water. I wouldn't go into 43 degree water w/o a drysuit.

Isn't it great to find a shop that is willing to violate training standards at your request?

 

[Robert Gillcash]

I did all my pool work here in the US and did my check out dives in Jamaica. The PADI guidelines state the 5 OW dives are supposed to be done over 2 days, but the shop I did them with was willing to do them all in one day, provided I started very early and was willing to stay out on the boat w/o returning, doing generous surface intervals. If the checkout dives were done at Turks and Caicos, they would also be by boat. Sounds like a lot more fun to do them there in 85+ degree water. I wouldn't go into 43 degree water w/o a drysuit.

Wow, multiple lawsuits for wrongful injuries / deaths are foreseen in the future for that dive shop. Followed closely by bankruptcy, both business and personal, finished off by possible jail term for negligence.
Why would you even consider going to a shop that openly will violate standards? Do they take that little care with everything they do? When was that air in the tank last tested? Do they even service their rental regs at all?
That shop has opened up a big can of worms with a very unhappy ending coming fast.

 

[Robert Gillcash]

Yes, we have spoken to my son about giving into fear and how this time it's cold water in your face and the next time it's something else. I told him that this can be a time to grab fear by the neck or look back later and regret not doing it. He is more of a risk taker than my oldest which is why this surprised us. I guess you just never know when something unexpected will tap into an unknown fear. We are encouraging him to complete diving even if it's just for the sake of being the one in control of his fears intstead of the other way around. I am one of the people who regret not having support to try things that made me anxious or scared or worried I would fail. My folks just always said "if you don't want to do it, just don't do it", which is great when it comes to peer pressure, but bad when it comes to self doubt/fear keeping you out of sports, social settings etc. So, I'm different, I want me kids to know the confidence of overcoming fear, not the regret of letting it overcome them. There is a line between encouragement and forcing him that I don't want to cross, that's the gray area for me. So I give him alternatives, like waiting til the water is warmer, but I haven't said he can quit. Hope it all works out and he gains confidence in himself through it all and the option to dive with his friend/dad&brother. Thanks again, and I will have my husband ask about the one minute mask rule and why they do it if PADI doesn't require it.

It sounds like you and your son are handling this quite well, however, do not mistake fear for shock. A blast of cold, cold water in your face will cause shock to the system. Instinctive reactions to shock are hard to control. Fear? That's another thing altogether.

 

[Aaron528]

Wow, multiple lawsuits for wrongful injuries / deaths are foreseen in the future for that dive shop. Followed closely by bankruptcy, both business and personal, finished off by possible jail term for negligence.
Why would you even consider going to a shop that openly will violate standards? Do they take that little care with everything they do? When was that air in the tank last tested? Do they even service their rental regs at all?
That shop has opened up a big can of worms with a very unhappy ending coming fast.

I didn't find out until after the dives were over that they were supposed to be done differently. I'm not sure it was done "openly"...it may have been an exception. It may have happened that way because there were only 2 students with an instructor and a divemaster, and the other student needed to leave the country the following day. I'm not sure, but FWIW, I never had a feeling that I was being rushed, or that anyone was ever being careless. In fact, it was the opposite. I got a lot of personal attention and felt like my dives were well conducted and it wasn't difficult to get them done.

The shop has been in business for many many years. Everything was clean and appeared to be well run. The rental gear was actually in much better condition there than it was at the resort where we stayed. In principle I agree that adherence to standards is necessary, but in spite of the technical violation I felt like I had a very positive experience.

 

[covediver]

"mask off" drills are the bane of many students, in my experience. it is something to get through.

I have been diving for 27 years and have yet to have my mask knocked off my face nor have I had to ditch and don a scuba tank/BC.

These are tasks to be endured and imho have little to do with safe diving.

Some practices are relics of a type of dive training that have come and gone. why not bring back doing push ups on deck with a wetsuit, tank, and weightbelt.

When students had this problem, we would take them down, progressively flood and clear the mask until they were able to remove, replace, and clear the mask. And, I can tell you from diving in Alaska, that cold water immersion of the face does seem to induce a string of physiological reactions. Perhaps the progressive measure might work. In the end, he is the one that will have to determine if it is worth the effort. I hope he sees it as a positive. I have seen marvelous things and been diving with some great people. Were it not for the activitiy, I would not have had as rich a life.

 

[aquaregia]

In the last year I've had three full mask floods (two kicks, one punch) and once needed to do a ditch and don on the surface. I think the necessity of these skills are probably location dependent.

I think covediver's advice is sound. My OW instructor recommended that I do the skill on the surface first to get my face wet in the cold water.

I was reading through the PADI propaganda book on why SCUBA diving is great for adolescents, and agreed with them on most points. It focussed on how to use SCUBA to mature the diver rather than the other way around. If the OP can get ahold of it, they might find it interesting.

 

[String]

Diving isn't for everyone. Some people will never be comfortable underwater. Also maturity is a big thing, not everyone has it in the teen years to enable them to dive.

I have been diving for 27 years and have yet to have my mask knocked off my face nor have I had to ditch and don a scuba tank/BC.

Well lucky you. I've never been struck by lightning but im not about to go out and fly a kite in a thunderstorm because ive never been hit before. Mask straps snap, lenses fall out. You get the odd fin in the face, you bang your head or mask on a rock and dislodge it. The mask constantly fogs so requires it to be removed and rubbed to demist on a dive. Someone forgot to shave in the morning and it floods constantly. Plenty of reasons a mask might leave your face.
Anyone who isnt comfortable underwater without a mask on their face has no business BEING underwater at all. Its simply not safe.