100' vs 130'??

[ChuckP]

For futuer diving experiences and minimized hassle - that AOW card is worth way more than a Deep Card. Doesn't matter that it might not make sense, it's just reality.

Experience though, just go dive, gradually work your way a little deeper over many dives but unless it's a wreck or something there at 120' - at reef at 40' provides just as much happiness.

 

[Wibble]

Experience though, just go dive, gradually work your way a little deeper over many dives but unless it's a wreck or something there at 120' - at reef at 40' provides just as much happiness.

This is difficult to agree with. Novices need training as they don't have the experience to know what they don't know -- c.f. that stupid "I'm advanced" AOW thing which almost encourages overconfidence.

Diving is all about practice though. Get a quality instructor to show you what good looks like, then practice to emulate that.

 

[tursiops]

unless you are planning on going pro with padi, the aow cert means nothing.

In the PADI sequence, AOW is a prereq to RESCUE class, which all divers really ought to take.

 

[Jcp2]

I have run into a situation where they wanted to see a deep cert. for a wreck dive to 130ft in lake Michigan. not sure if it was a requirement of the shop setting up the dive or the charter operation they where using. lets say I have not gone back to that shop.

Were you planning on going that deep on a twin set with deco? 130 in cold dark water on a single Al80 NDL is a very short dive without a lot of room for complications.

 

[tursiops]

Perhap this will help:
There is a difference between the depths to which you are trained, and the depths to which you are certified.
OW trains to 60, AOW 10 100, Deep to 130.
It is recommended you not exceed your training depth without more training or experience.
The big difference between 60 and 100 is the rate at which you use up gas.
The additional big difference between 100 and 130 is the high probability of gas narcosis.
Thus the step-wise training, followed by the recommended depth limits.

 

[Seaweed Doc]

Oh wow, you just answered a second question I was going to post. I was originally certified in 1984 in college with IDEA. I remember the dive tables etc. and did not remember there being a 60' depth restriction. A few years later, I got married (to a non diver) and my diving dried up. However, in 2020, I got re-certified with my two sons (21 & 23) with PADI, no judgment please , and was puzzled to learn of the restrictions and was wondering if I originally had them and simply forgot about it. Regardless, I do not plan on having any deep dives any time soon; simply curious about the different levels. For now, I'm still getting my fins wet. ... Thanks for answering my question even before I had a chance to ask!

I dId YMCA certification in 1985. We did our deepest training dive to 60'. We were advised to gain experience with gradually increasing depths. So do some dives to 65' first, not a dive to 100' the day after certification.

We also used Navy tables, including being given deco tables in case we wanted to do longer dives. We were told we'd get narced at 100' and die of oxygen toxicity at 200' breathing air. And beware that voodoo gas.

Times have changed. I think most agencies say you are *trained* to a particular depth (60/100/130' for OW, AOW and Deep, assuming you hit those depths in your class). If you dive beyond that and get hurt, I'm guessing it's tougher to pin liability on the agency's training.

I've not really thought about what my liability is as an instructor when my buddy and I dive for fun to 110' and I know they don't have a Deep cert. Probably minimal since I know that my buddy has experience, and PADI uses "training or experience" a lot.

 

[boulderjohn]

The big difference between 60 and 100 is the rate at which you use up gas.

Yes, very much so. It is one thing to calculate the difference; it is another thing to experience it.

I was once teaching two AOW students, and on the first day I noticed that one of them went through his air pretty quickly, but not outrageously so. On the second day, we prepared for the deep dive. I had them plan a multi-level dive together, with the deepest part to end when one of them reached a certain pressure, and a shallow part to end at another pressure. After that, we should have plenty of gas for a leisurely ascent. Our maximum depth was right at 100 feet, where I planned to show them a cluster of crystals forming on the rock wall. When we reached that point, though, the buddy of the fast breather looked at the buddy's gas for himself and saw that he had already reached the turn pressure. We ascended to the second depth, and he reached that turn pressure rapidly as well. He finally reached the surface after the safety stop with 400 PSI. I had 2200 PSI, and I am not an amazing breather.

I told him that the most important thing he learned in the AOW deep dive was that he should not be doing deep dives until he improved the rate at which he breathed air on such a dive. I am confident that if he had done a 100 foot dive without an unusually attentive buddy (not many will reach over and check their buddy's air early in the dive) and an instructor, he would have gone out of air at 100 feet.

 

[boulderjohn]

Times have changed. I think most agencies say you are *trained* to a particular depth (60/100/130' for OW, AOW and Deep, assuming you hit those depths in your class). If you dive beyond that and get hurt, I'm guessing it's tougher to pin liability on the agency's training.

I've not really thought about what my liability is as an instructor when my buddy and I dive fir fun to 110' and I know they don't have a Deep cert. Probably minimal since I know that my buddy has experience, and PADI uses "training or experience" a lot.

When you are diving on your own as a certified diver, you are responsible for the decisions you make. I have never heard of a training agency being liable for a certified diver's actions. In the case of Gabe and Tina Watson, ini which Gabe (Rescue Diver) failed to rescue his newly certified wife, and it became apparent that both were truly incompetent, nobody sued the training agency (NASDS), even when evidence indicated that the training they received (same instructor) was likely faulty, based on the amount of time the certifications took.

On the other hand, if there is any possibility that a diver believes himself to be in a dependent relationship on a professional, even if there is no class involved, the professional can potentially be sued, but in the only successful cases I know, the professional was grossly negligent during the dive. If they are just two divers diving, it is far less likely--although possible.

 

[Seaweed Doc]

When you are diving on your own as a certified diver, you are responsible for the decisions you make. I have never heard of a training agency being liable for a certified diver's actions.

Can't say I have either, but they are named regularly in suits. Not sure they've been successful sued.

Imagine a situation where a OW certified diver gets bent with no dives deeper than 60'. He blames a real or perceived flaw in training. Compare that to the same situation but with dives to 80'. It's easier to say "hey, we never trained you to 80'. You wouldn't have gotten bent if you'd stuck to what we trained you for."

 

[Josh the diver]

Were you planning on going that deep on a twin set with deco? 130 in cold dark water on a single Al80 NDL is a very short dive without a lot of room for complications.

if I remember correct. 130 was the sand. they had the dive planned for single tank al 80 dive no decompression.