Apparently Daryl has specific, though thirdhand, information concerning the incident involving an uncontrolled descent. Do you have contradictory information and are you free to share that?
(05 JUN 05) Missing diver at Whytecliff
- Thread starter Daryl Morse
- Start date
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OP
Daryl Morse
Contributor
Given the tone of your post, I don't feel particularly obliged to respond, but I will anyway, just for clarification.*Scuba*Princess*:
To the first point, refer to Uncle Pug's post.
To the second point, by "complete" the dive, as was already suggested by others, I meant go to the surface while fulfilling any mandatory or optional stops along the way. In retrospect, I suppose I could have used the word "conclude" or "abort" rather than "complete", but I thought the intent was obvious, since wedivebc used the same words.
(FYI, normally my nature would be to reply to an aggressive post in-kind, but I held off in consideration of the situation. People are upset by the incident, myself included, but that doesn't justify your tone. If you can't hold back the vitriol, you should think about staying away from the keyboard.)
Daryl,Daryl Morse:
I should give you some advance warning -- Scuba Princess' tone is rather common in the A&I forum here. There are a number of people that say if you didn't see it first hand, you shouldn't say it here. I tend to disagree, in that we're not a courtroom -- we don't have the power to subpoena witnesses, nor compel them to tell the truth. All we have to learn from is what information is released... which is often incomplete.
Please don't take comments (and tones) like hers seriously... people deal with these situations in different ways, and we just have to avoid lashing out at each other.
Cheers,
DiveGolfSki
Contributor
*Scuba*Princess*:
SP,
Daryl also qualified his statement by "Sorry for the vague information. I appreciate that many of you would like to have more details, but it's not for for me say anything further. Suffice it to say that this is a very terrible incident and it's fortunate that there was only one victim."
You are correct about not embellishing an incident and there have been numerous posts in this category where people just go off speculating all over the place. I don't get that from Daryl's report. He begins the post with "spoke with someone who has direct knowledge of the incident. At this stage, it appears ....".
It appears
he's not trying to inject his own interpretation of the facts but is trying to shed some light on this accident.Sorry, if I read it differently but as long as he qualifies his information (which he did), he's doing fine..
Folks... this thread is for discussing the incident at Whytecliff Park. It isn't for discussing one another.
*Scuba*Princess*
Registered
No tone intended and apologies that it was taken that way. And thanks for explaining. Yes it is all emotional and thats what was stirred up when I misinterpreted your "complete" as "continue." It can often be the attitude of some divers not wanting to end/ruin their dive because they got separated from a buddy.... and who knows if the buddy got in trouble or just expects to meet back at the car.
And no, I don't have any further information on the accident Uncle Pug.
Hopefully we may find out what really happened to learn from it & remember.
Its all sad.
And no, I don't have any further information on the accident Uncle Pug.
Hopefully we may find out what really happened to learn from it & remember.
Its all sad.
Understood SP. These kinds of events hit us were we all live and are always emotional to one degree or another.
It is always appropriate to offer condolences to the friends, family, love ones left behind as well as the buddy in threads like this. It is also helpful to get accurate information to help understand what happened. Sometimes that information comes *back channel*while often the information obtained through media reports can be described as inaccurate at best.
It is always appropriate to offer condolences to the friends, family, love ones left behind as well as the buddy in threads like this. It is also helpful to get accurate information to help understand what happened. Sometimes that information comes *back channel*while often the information obtained through media reports can be described as inaccurate at best.
OP
Daryl Morse
Contributor
Here's the latest news report. Unfortunately, there's no indication that the missing diver has been recovered.
Diver Search
Jun, 07 2005 - 4:00 PM
WEST VANCOUVER(CKNW/AM980) - Another search-and-recovery going on is off Whytecliff Park in West Vancouver, where RCMP divers are looking for a Langley teenager missing since Sunday. He got separated from his dive buddy at "The Cut", where the water is 130-feet deep.
3 of the 5 Mounties on the job had just come back from the recovery mission on Okanagan Lake for the RCMP officer who fell from a zodiac last week and Corporal Tom Seaman tells us, it's a wearing time for them.
"Anytime they're involved in such a recovery or search action, of course, diving is tiring, stressful and as you said, searching for one of our own can even add to that, and then to come back and get involved in another one, can be tiring."
There are 32 RCMP divers in British Columbia and Seaman says their deployment depends on their location and availability.
Diver Search
Jun, 07 2005 - 4:00 PM
WEST VANCOUVER(CKNW/AM980) - Another search-and-recovery going on is off Whytecliff Park in West Vancouver, where RCMP divers are looking for a Langley teenager missing since Sunday. He got separated from his dive buddy at "The Cut", where the water is 130-feet deep.
3 of the 5 Mounties on the job had just come back from the recovery mission on Okanagan Lake for the RCMP officer who fell from a zodiac last week and Corporal Tom Seaman tells us, it's a wearing time for them.
"Anytime they're involved in such a recovery or search action, of course, diving is tiring, stressful and as you said, searching for one of our own can even add to that, and then to come back and get involved in another one, can be tiring."
There are 32 RCMP divers in British Columbia and Seaman says their deployment depends on their location and availability.
I talked to a relative of the surviving buddy and his story isn't far off what's already been said, except I heard they weren't planning to go that deep, and currents were a factor in their uncontrolled descent. The poor visibilty and narcosis were also factors. I won't speculate on their experience level or details I don't know (and I hope you won't either), but protocol is to search for a minute then ascend, so he did the correct thing. Anyone who dives in bad viz. knows how difficult it can be to find someone. It was a very tragic accident.
My condolances go out not only to the lost diver's family and friends, but also to the buddy. This is a difficult time for him. It's a position none of us ever want to be in.
Everyone always says they want to learn from incidents that happen and it seems that most are related to uncontrolled descents into deep water. So if you're reading about this as a new diver, or one inexperienced with deep dives, especially in cold water and low viz. then I hope you can see the risks involved and the importance of taking an advanced course. This still doesn't make you instantly an advanced diver, and it's best to start with deep dives that have a bottom within your limit and comfort zone. Even if you don't intend to go that deep, if you're not yet adept at controlling your buoyancy, and/or you're packing too much weight, you can get into trouble with an uncontrolled descent into water deeper than planned (not to imply lack of experience or knowledge was the cause this time).
If you already know all this because you are an experienced cold, deep water diver... fabulous. The best thing you can do is help new divers understand that deep dives are about more than a few extra feet, and maybe take them out on that first deep wall dive when they're ready. Don't forget everyone was there once... and should live to tell the tale.
My condolances go out not only to the lost diver's family and friends, but also to the buddy. This is a difficult time for him. It's a position none of us ever want to be in.
Everyone always says they want to learn from incidents that happen and it seems that most are related to uncontrolled descents into deep water. So if you're reading about this as a new diver, or one inexperienced with deep dives, especially in cold water and low viz. then I hope you can see the risks involved and the importance of taking an advanced course. This still doesn't make you instantly an advanced diver, and it's best to start with deep dives that have a bottom within your limit and comfort zone. Even if you don't intend to go that deep, if you're not yet adept at controlling your buoyancy, and/or you're packing too much weight, you can get into trouble with an uncontrolled descent into water deeper than planned (not to imply lack of experience or knowledge was the cause this time).
If you already know all this because you are an experienced cold, deep water diver... fabulous. The best thing you can do is help new divers understand that deep dives are about more than a few extra feet, and maybe take them out on that first deep wall dive when they're ready. Don't forget everyone was there once... and should live to tell the tale.
deepdiverbc
Contributor
Thank you for passing on more details. We all want to learn from accidents like this to prevent future ones.
I have a friend who got separated from his buddy last year over a very short distance in shallow water. The buddy never surfaced and it shows how easy it is to loose sight of one another in a short period of time. They were in a typical two person buddy team but the fact that a buddy team can get separated so quickly is one reason why I don't like diving in buddy groups of three. It is hard enough to keep an eye on one buddy, let alone two. Low vis, difficult currents and the narcotic effect of deep dives would make this even more difficult. It was very hard on my friend and those who dove with him that day. I hope that the surviving buddy in this incident gets a lot of support from those close to him.
Here are some of my personal thoughts on factors that will help towards the successfull completion of a deep dive within recreational limits. I am not a tech diver and there are a lot of board members with more experience than me but I want to offer my 2 cents worth of advice. I hope it helps. I would like to note that these points are not specifically directed at this incident but for general consideration on all dives.
1. For any new divers that have a desire to go deep I would recommend logging a lot of dives at gradually increased depth increments. This will allow you to learn your limits and find out how well you personally react to narcosis at various depths and stress factors such as low vis, cold, current, fatigue etc. How well can you focus under these conditions?
2. If you are diving deep don't rely on the instincts you use at 60ft to check air, computer and buddy. At depth even mild narcosis can make it is easy to get distracted and forget, so make doing these checks a routine that you repeat more frequently than you would at shallower depths.
3. Know your air consumption rate. If you are a diver that typically runs out of air before your bottom time is up you might not be ready for deeper dives. At depths leading up to 130 ft your air supply can disappear quickly, especially if you are diving in poor conditions that add stress. I also like to keep an eye on my buddy's air supply, comparing air gauges through out the dive and more frequently as air supplies get lower.
4. Know your buddy. If you are going to do a deeper dive you need to know that your buddy is within his or her own comfort limits and be able to communicate well with each other.
5. Try to know what conditions to expect before you enter the water. Check tides before you get to the site and ask local divers if the site is current sensitive. If there are divers in the area that have completed dives ask them what the vis and current were like. If it doesn't sound good you might want to opt for a different site or plan an easier dive profile.
6. If you are doing a boat dive you might consider hanging a spare cylinder at the safety stop. A nitrox blend would be even better. I also take an emergency O2 cylinder with non rebreather mask on all dives for surface treatment of DCS.
I have a friend who got separated from his buddy last year over a very short distance in shallow water. The buddy never surfaced and it shows how easy it is to loose sight of one another in a short period of time. They were in a typical two person buddy team but the fact that a buddy team can get separated so quickly is one reason why I don't like diving in buddy groups of three. It is hard enough to keep an eye on one buddy, let alone two. Low vis, difficult currents and the narcotic effect of deep dives would make this even more difficult. It was very hard on my friend and those who dove with him that day. I hope that the surviving buddy in this incident gets a lot of support from those close to him.
Here are some of my personal thoughts on factors that will help towards the successfull completion of a deep dive within recreational limits. I am not a tech diver and there are a lot of board members with more experience than me but I want to offer my 2 cents worth of advice. I hope it helps. I would like to note that these points are not specifically directed at this incident but for general consideration on all dives.
1. For any new divers that have a desire to go deep I would recommend logging a lot of dives at gradually increased depth increments. This will allow you to learn your limits and find out how well you personally react to narcosis at various depths and stress factors such as low vis, cold, current, fatigue etc. How well can you focus under these conditions?
2. If you are diving deep don't rely on the instincts you use at 60ft to check air, computer and buddy. At depth even mild narcosis can make it is easy to get distracted and forget, so make doing these checks a routine that you repeat more frequently than you would at shallower depths.
3. Know your air consumption rate. If you are a diver that typically runs out of air before your bottom time is up you might not be ready for deeper dives. At depths leading up to 130 ft your air supply can disappear quickly, especially if you are diving in poor conditions that add stress. I also like to keep an eye on my buddy's air supply, comparing air gauges through out the dive and more frequently as air supplies get lower.
4. Know your buddy. If you are going to do a deeper dive you need to know that your buddy is within his or her own comfort limits and be able to communicate well with each other.
5. Try to know what conditions to expect before you enter the water. Check tides before you get to the site and ask local divers if the site is current sensitive. If there are divers in the area that have completed dives ask them what the vis and current were like. If it doesn't sound good you might want to opt for a different site or plan an easier dive profile.
6. If you are doing a boat dive you might consider hanging a spare cylinder at the safety stop. A nitrox blend would be even better. I also take an emergency O2 cylinder with non rebreather mask on all dives for surface treatment of DCS.
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