Why choose GUE Rec-1?

[ginti]

I was taught fundamentals in my BSAC Sports diving. I was buddied with with an OW padi diver who had ten dives. her instructor was a BSAC and Padi instructor and she had buoyancy mastered as her instructor would not pass students who could not control themselves.

Just curious here I don't really get what you mean. "GUE Fundamentals" is a course, normally taught in four days, full time. What do you mean when you say that you were taught fundamentals during the BSAC sport divings? Did you actually take the course from a GUE instructor? Or did the BSAC/PADI instructor taught you what you needed?

 

[Blackcrusader]

Just curious here I don't really get what you mean. "GUE Fundamentals" is a course, normally taught in four days, full time. What do you mean when you say that you were taught fundamentals during the BSAC sport divings? Did you actually take the course from a GUE instructor? Or did the BSAC/PADI instructor taught you what you needed?

I meant my BSAC instructor taught all these things they are actually core BSAC Sports diving lessons except no nitrox back in 1986. I wrote fundamentals not GUE fundamentals..

My BSAC instructor was also a commercial diver for Brunei Shell and was pretty good I think at adding additional things to courses. The thing was being in a BSAC club was the regular training every week which of course you do not get from padi.

GUE is not really the first agency to have had instructors teach core things that GUE do as it comes to bouyancy being able to helicopter. We did not calculate sac rates as BSAC sports diving was planned deco dives and we always had extra tanks on the dive site and anchor lines.

 

[ginti]

I meant my BSAC instructor taught all these things they are actually core BSAC Sports diving lessons except no nitrox back in 1986. I wrote fundamentals not GUE fundamentals..

My BSAC instructor was also a commercial diver for Brunei Shell and was pretty good I think at adding additional things to courses. The thing was being in a BSAC club was the regular training every week which of course you do not get from padi.

GUE is not really the first agency to have had instructors teach core things that GUE do as it comes to bouyancy being able to helicopter. We did not calculate sac rates as BSAC sports diving was planned deco dives and we always had extra tanks on the dive site and anchor lines.

Clear! The thing is that you quoted a topic in which "Fundamentals" was the name of the course, and then you used it in a different way without specifying it... it was an easy misunderstanding

Just to be exhaustive, all the things that you mentioned are just a fraction of GUE Fundies; and they are not even the more important.

To give an idea, when I first tried for a tec-pass, I didn't get it essentially for a lack of team awareness. There is an entire part about standardization, that you may like or not, which is strongly related to the team approach to diving of GUE.

Saying that GUE Fundies teaches only basic skills is very reductive, at the best...

Obviously, GUE is not the only agency teaching these things (at least UTD and ISE have the same approach), and I am sure you can find many instructors across other agencies able to teach the same things.

Regarding the skills, I believe you that they existed and they were being taught way before GUE was even born.

 

[Edward3c]

Clear! The thing is that you quoted a topic in which "Fundamentals" was the name of the course, and then you used it in a different way without specifying it... it was an easy misunderstanding

Just to be exhaustive, all the things that you mentioned are just a fraction of GUE Fundies; and they are not even the more important.

To give an idea, when I first tried for a tec-pass, I didn't get it essentially for a lack of team awareness. There is an entire part about standardization, that you may like or not, which is strongly related to the team approach to diving of GUE.

Saying that GUE Fundies teaches only basic skills is very reductive, at the best...

Obviously, GUE is not the only agency teaching these things (at least UTD and ISE have the same approach), and I am sure you can find many instructors across other agencies able to teach the same things.

Regarding the skills, I believe you that they existed and they were being taught way before GUE was even born.

About three years ago a senior GUE instructor scraped through the BSAC Buoancy & Trim Workshop. Up to that time they poo poo'ed BSAC, they went very quiet after the workshop. The one thing I like about GUE is the recertification of instructors, as a small (niche) agency they can do that.

 

[Blackcrusader]

Clear! The thing is that you quoted a topic in which "Fundamentals" was the name of the course, and then you used it in a different way without specifying it... it was an easy misunderstanding
Just to be exhaustive, all the things that you mentioned are just a fraction of GUE Fundies; and they are not even the more important.

Firstly I only wrote fundamentals in the sense they are basic core features of training. Also BSAC Sports novice diving training covers lots of things. My BSAC Sports Novice manual is over 110 pages. It covers emergency procedures, rescue, navigation, we learned knots to tie for use on the boat and what different knots were for amongst other things. You should see the other BSAC Sports manuals lol. Plus we were on planned deco dives on air. So comparatively speaking BSAC sports diving I did back in the 1980's covered a hell of a lot even at a basic level. Many would consider DECO dives technical dives whereas they were just basic air dives back then.

One thing... we were given Ipecac which causes one to vomit, good for children who have drunk liquid poisons. This was done and we were taught what to do incase we got violently sick during a dive. Not covered in PADI or most other agencies. When I ask instructors about it they look at me in horror sometimes. Why would I teach that? I'm like why would you teach a diver other safety things and not that? A Korean lass drowned in Cebu at 20m depth. She vomited and panicked at 20m and drowned after she took her regulator out and tried to swim to the surface. They got her to the surface and a hospital where she was in a coma for a month but survived. She was never taught about what to do if she got sick on a dive and nearly died for lack of a very basic training.

So for me that is a fundamental part of the training lots of instructors do not teach in real life, some merely mention in it passing. I've been on dives where divers were sea sick on the boat and I ask them what they would do if they were underwater. A lot of the responses I get are " I would take my regulator out of my mouth"

 

[jadairiii]

... we were given Ipecac which causes one to vomit, good for children who have drunk liquid poisons. This was done and we were taught what to do incase we got violently sick during a dive.

This is a "skill set" that just proper planning would avoid having to "lean" this skill. I didnt go to no fancy medical school...but....

1. giving people ipecac that arent sick is not a great idea;
2. divers should be taught to have the self awareness not to get into the water when they are not feeling well;
3. and if you are someone prone to becoming "violently ill" without warning you shouldnt dive

What else did this instructor do? Hit you in the head with a baseball bat to simulate boat to head trauma?

 

[ginti]

Firstly I only wrote fundamentals in the sense they are basic core features of training. Also BSAC Sports novice diving training covers lots of things. My BSAC Sports Novice manual is over 110 pages. It covers emergency procedures, rescue, navigation, we learned knots to tie for use on the boat and what different knots were for amongst other things. You should see the other BSAC Sports manuals lol. Plus we were on planned deco dives on air. So comparatively speaking BSAC sports diving I did back in the 1980's covered a hell of a lot even at a basic level. Many would consider DECO dives technical dives whereas they were just basic air dives back then.

One thing... we were given Ipecac which causes one to vomit, good for children who have drunk liquid poisons. This was done and we were taught what to do incase we got violently sick during a dive. Not covered in PADI or most other agencies. When I ask instructors about it they look at me in horror sometimes. Why would I teach that? I'm like why would you teach a diver other safety things and not that? A Korean lass drowned in Cebu at 20m depth. She vomited and panicked at 20m and drowned after she took her regulator out and tried to swim to the surface. They got her to the surface and a hospital where she was in a coma for a month but survived. She was never taught about what to do if she got sick on a dive and nearly died for lack of a very basic training.

So for me that is a fundamental part of the training lots of instructors do not teach in real life, some merely mention in it passing. I've been on dives where divers were sea sick on the boat and I ask them what they would do if they were underwater. A lot of the responses I get are " I would take my regulator out of my mouth"

About three years ago a senior GUE instructor scraped through the BSAC Buoancy & Trim Workshop. Up to that time they poo poo'ed BSAC, they went very quiet after the workshop. The one thing I like about GUE is the recertification of instructors, as a small (niche) agency they can do that.

I don't get why you are answering directly to me. I just hope that my post didn't sound like an attack to BSAC or another of the many useless posts "this agency is better than the others". All agencies have some strengths and some weaknesses, and none is the best in absolute terms.

I am sure that BSAC has plenty of amazing instructors, as I am sure that any organization has amazing instructors. Also, even if I don't know the BSAC organization itself, from what I read around it seems an awesome one. And I have never said anything opposite

EDIT: as far as I remember, there are some agreements between BSAC and GUE, so I bet the two agencies have a great respect for each other, at least at UK level

 

[ginti]

This is a "skill set" that just proper planning would avoid having to "lean" this skill. I didnt go to no fancy medical school...but....

1. giving people ipecac that arent sick is not a great idea;
2. divers should be taught to have the self awareness not to get into the water when they are not feeling well;
3. and if you are someone prone to becoming "violently ill" without warning you shouldnt dive

What else did this instructor do? Hit you in the head with a baseball bat to simulate boat to head trauma?

Diving schools 40 years ago were obviously very different from today's ones. Since I was not even alive, I cannot have a clear view of what was happening at that time. But it doesn't surprise me that they were teaching these things; there was obviously way less knowledge than today about the underwater world, physiology, gas management, dive planning, etc. So it makes sense to me that they were teaching how to save people in certain scenarios that today we consider a bit (a lot?) extreme

 

[jadairiii]

Diving schools 40 years ago were obviously very different from today's ones. Since I was not even alive, I cannot have a clear view of what was happening at that time. ...

I was, my NAUI basic scuba class was in1975, my NAUI Sport diver class was in '77, chemically inducing vomiting while diving would have been outside the norm even then.

 

[Blackcrusader]

This is a "skill set" that just proper planning would avoid having to "lean" this skill. I didnt go to no fancy medical school...but....

1. giving people ipecac that arent sick is not a great idea;
2. divers should be taught to have the self awareness not to get into the water when they are not feeling well;
3. and if you are someone prone to becoming "violently ill" without warning you shouldn't dive

What else did this instructor do? Hit you in the head with a baseball bat to simulate boat to head trauma?

What else did this instructor do? He taught me how to say calm and not panic in difficult situations. He taught us how to get a diver with head trauma into a boat. Divers have hit their heats on hulls and props and been hit buy boats passing overhead by people who ignore diver flags. Can't recall any divers being hit with a baseball bat when diving though. I've seen a diver knocked out when hit by a tank from a diver climbing up a ladder as the other diver crowded the dive ladder to the boat. You never know when someone may suffer head trauma. I've seen a diver trip over and bash their face in while kitting up on a rocking dive boat in a swell. Head trauma not be taken for amusement really.

It's like saying divers should never be trained for something is like claiming that one should not train for out of air situations because you know, they should never run out of air. Fact is a diver may not be feeling unwell before diving. I've seen plenty of divers vomit underwater, and I've had several experiences of it myself. Fish feeding is fun when done properly without fear or anxiety or having a panic attack. Recently on a forum an instructor wrote he teaches how to vomit through regulators as he does DSD for overweight Americans doing their bucket list dives who just can't help themselves on their buffet breakfasts and lunches. He wrote that he has at least two DSD's a week that vomit underwater.