You should do at least deco procedures, and maybe even normoxic, on OC before moving to the CCR. As others have said, if you have to bail out, you're now on OC.
My New Toy
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I had my first classroom and pool session that consisted of lots of theory and discussion about rebreathers in general as well as why the se7en was designed with the logic that it has. I learned a ton from Ron and really enjoyed his stories.
We spent a lot of time building, testing, and disassembling the unit with the check list. I learned how to pack a scrubber and the importance of being thorough and attentive during the whole process.
We got in the pool and spent about 90 minutes underwater working on skills and just getting used to the feel of the unit and swimming around. Getting the loop volume right and buoyancy control was a struggle at first but it improved towards the end and I imagine that's a skill that will improve with time spent underwater just like OC diving.
I'm going back for another classroom and pool session before doing the open water dives just to get some more experience in.
We spent a lot of time building, testing, and disassembling the unit with the check list. I learned how to pack a scrubber and the importance of being thorough and attentive during the whole process.
We got in the pool and spent about 90 minutes underwater working on skills and just getting used to the feel of the unit and swimming around. Getting the loop volume right and buoyancy control was a struggle at first but it improved towards the end and I imagine that's a skill that will improve with time spent underwater just like OC diving.
I'm going back for another classroom and pool session before doing the open water dives just to get some more experience in.
I just took the plunge last December myself. I had ~100 dives at the time, and had been diving approximately 1.5 years. My cert level at the time was PADI Rescue. I originally contemplated going OC tech, but various CCR guys I know stated that if they could start over today, they would just go straight CCR... so that's what I decided to do.
My first level was the PADI Tec 40 CCR course, which I took in the middle of winter (drysuit, gry gloves, water in the 40s, bad vis, etc.) It's a good class, and doing it with the added challenges of drysuit/gloves/cold made it a pretty intense experience.
Since there's been nothing else to do in the world for the past 6 months, myself and several other guys have been racking up hours, and we're doing our Tec60 CCR dives in a few weeks. I don't know if I will go on to Tec100 next year; it depends on what other people are doing and if there are any relevant trips to make use of that level.
My advice would be the same as what I was given: if you can swing it, go CCR. I have no plans to do any OC tech whatsoever. The advantages are great, and you get a lot more out of your diving.
You CAN certainly go straight to CCR from recreational singles, but I've seen firsthand how most of them people struggle adding stage handling, OC gas planning, and gas switches to learning CCR skills. For many, bailing out remains scary when it should be simple and familiar. They also don't come to the party with a knowledge base about how to set up their rig for stages and their bailout rigging looks like crap.
Yes, all of that can be addressed with enough time in CCR class, but I'd rather that time was spent on other things and practically speaking, the students I've seen in CCR classes without at least sidemount training (better yet ANDP or normoxic) start off behind and tend to stay there for a long time.
Plus, when your unit craps out on some trip, you have the ability to save a trip and just dive OC tech. Not that I worry too much about that (not with my Meg ), but it is handy to have that n the toolbox.
@jgttrey I acknowledge the truth of everything you said.
But, I look back at my history and see this:
OW diver 11/14
AN/DP diver 5/16
OC Normoxic Trimix diver 7/18
CCR Deco diver 1/19
I started pursuing tech diving when I learned that the wreck of the Monitor is diveable. Diving the Monitor has been my goal since mid-2015.
I have not yet (in 5 years now) gotten to the level of being able to dive it. After my next CCR training (IANTD Normoxic Plus - cert limit to 70m/230fsw), I will finally be able to.
I *could* have stuck with OC to get there and probably gotten to full trimix last year. Maybe. Otherwise, it would have been this year to get to full trimix.
Barring unforeseen things happening, I will get to the needed level of training on CCR this year.
Of the two, I would MUCH rather be doing 70m diving on CCR than OC. If for no other reason than the cost of helium.
I look at my history and think "if I had gone straight to CCR when I actually started AN/DP, I would have been at the level I want to be at at least a year ago." I started AN/DP training in 2015. Where could I be in my diving right now if I had started CCR training in 2015? I think I could possibly have already made it all the way to MOD3 (full trimix CCR) by now. And by that, I mean, without cutting corners along the way. Getting solid training and getting adequate experience in between classes.
Instead, I plan to finish MOD2 this year and MAYBE do MOD3 next year - but most likely in 2022 (I want to get PLENTY of time on the loop at the Normoxic Plus level before I step up to hypoxic mixes - the thought of diving with hypoxic gases makes my butt pucker just a little bit).
So, yeah, it may be a slower road at first to go straight from OW rec to diving a CCR. But, I feel like it would have been the more efficient way to get to where I want to be (without cutting corners on training or experience).
But, I look back at my history and see this:
OW diver 11/14
AN/DP diver 5/16
OC Normoxic Trimix diver 7/18
CCR Deco diver 1/19
I started pursuing tech diving when I learned that the wreck of the Monitor is diveable. Diving the Monitor has been my goal since mid-2015.
I have not yet (in 5 years now) gotten to the level of being able to dive it. After my next CCR training (IANTD Normoxic Plus - cert limit to 70m/230fsw), I will finally be able to.
I *could* have stuck with OC to get there and probably gotten to full trimix last year. Maybe. Otherwise, it would have been this year to get to full trimix.
Barring unforeseen things happening, I will get to the needed level of training on CCR this year.
Of the two, I would MUCH rather be doing 70m diving on CCR than OC. If for no other reason than the cost of helium.
I look at my history and think "if I had gone straight to CCR when I actually started AN/DP, I would have been at the level I want to be at at least a year ago." I started AN/DP training in 2015. Where could I be in my diving right now if I had started CCR training in 2015? I think I could possibly have already made it all the way to MOD3 (full trimix CCR) by now. And by that, I mean, without cutting corners along the way. Getting solid training and getting adequate experience in between classes.
Instead, I plan to finish MOD2 this year and MAYBE do MOD3 next year - but most likely in 2022 (I want to get PLENTY of time on the loop at the Normoxic Plus level before I step up to hypoxic mixes - the thought of diving with hypoxic gases makes my butt pucker just a little bit).
So, yeah, it may be a slower road at first to go straight from OW rec to diving a CCR. But, I feel like it would have been the more efficient way to get to where I want to be (without cutting corners on training or experience).
All fair. Knowing you (virtually, at least) I'm confident you could have gone the CCR route from the outset. But, my opinion is that you are an outlier (in a good way). You're a thoughtful and disciplined guy about everything diving related and you are probably 99th percentile in terms of students taking a class and probably a perfectionist who practices skills all the time.
I just have seen so many examples of students who can't get the most out of their CCR classes because they are playing catch up. Many require additional dive days, or even additional trips to finish up with minimal competence. Event then, I'm not sure I'd trust them to be able to shoot a bag while ascending on bailout, for example - something that any OC tech diver has done a jillion times.
I know I was far better prepared for CCR (through hypoxic) because I was already comfortable with OC tech. I went through all sorts of tweaks and adjustments on that path that I didn't have to try to learn or figure out again, from how I like to rig stages, to carrying and deploying my smb, to all those little harness tweaks. I'd have hated to figure that out for the first time on CCR.
I just have seen so many examples of students who can't get the most out of their CCR classes because they are playing catch up. Many require additional dive days, or even additional trips to finish up with minimal competence. Event then, I'm not sure I'd trust them to be able to shoot a bag while ascending on bailout, for example - something that any OC tech diver has done a jillion times.
I know I was far better prepared for CCR (through hypoxic) because I was already comfortable with OC tech. I went through all sorts of tweaks and adjustments on that path that I didn't have to try to learn or figure out again, from how I like to rig stages, to carrying and deploying my smb, to all those little harness tweaks. I'd have hated to figure that out for the first time on CCR.
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100% on board for AN/DP in OC. 0% on board for normoxic. 2 reasons. First reason is that you have to take normoxic twice with most agencies since you can't take Mod3 without Mod2, even if you are a full trimix diver. Second reason is that given the current state of helium pricing and availability, I don't think anyone is actually going to get any reasonable experience on OC trimix because of the cost.
10 years ago, different story, but I think the agencies will be better off revamping the mod2/3 curricula to emphasize OC ascents and essentially phase out OC trimix diving given the current state of the industry and rebreathers, but also the state of the global gas market
I've done a lot of OC trimix diving in the past month. The costs aren't that crazy. Roughly $30-40 a top-up, my last one was a bit more pricey though.
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Helium is $0.96 at Wayne's right now and that's not a lot of margin given my last gas bill from the gas suppliers and that was after waiting 4 months to get the bottles in... $30-$40 topoff sounds about right for something like 21/35 the current state of helium also has a lot of our OC divers up here on Jocassee using really lean helium mixes to save $, read like 12/30 for 100m dives... I just don't see the helium situation changing and as rebreathers continue to get cheaper, more reliable, and more accessible I think it's a better decision to change the way we teach to account for the current state of the industry than try to muscle old school training.
Helium has been hovering around that same price for several years, it really hasn't spiked that bad. And I'm talking about normoxic ranges, not 100m dives (BTW, a 200' END in a cold dark place like Jocassee is looooney toons).
If $30-40 a top-up for a normoxic dive is breaking the bank, the solution is not to be spend $10k on a CCR with training. I could do years of OC normoxic diving for the cost of a CCR.
Once again, my initial statement was do OC through normoxic, get really good at diving OC at 190' where you have some time pressure, before switching to a rebreather. Once that rebreather breaks, you're back on OC, so better have some muscle memory to rely on.
And I say this as a CCR trimix instructor.
If $30-40 a top-up for a normoxic dive is breaking the bank, the solution is not to be spend $10k on a CCR with training. I could do years of OC normoxic diving for the cost of a CCR.
Once again, my initial statement was do OC through normoxic, get really good at diving OC at 190' where you have some time pressure, before switching to a rebreather. Once that rebreather breaks, you're back on OC, so better have some muscle memory to rely on.
And I say this as a CCR trimix instructor.
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