Stop steering new divers in North America towards DIN regulators

[beester]

On the DIN convertibles, corrosion, stripping of the insert hex, leakage around the insert. Leaking around the collar of the regulator, corrosion of the threads of rental tanks scouring the regulator threads and leakage. Not to mention that there are two different standards. Oh and my new fav, DIN convertible valves being to large to slip a yoke reg over.

The point of this thread is not the alleged superiority of DIN but the bad advice of selling/recommending DIN regs for North American and Caribbean Basin traveling divers due to their limited prevalence and niche use. Tech bleed over again on the forum.

N

I agree with you Nemrod... except when it comes to the different standards. They exist, but only in theory. I know nobody who get's fooled by the M26 Nitrox din standard. It doesn't exist, almost nobody uses it why should they.

 

[Nemrod]

DIN good. DIN convertible, not so good. N

 

[Caveeagle]

....The point of this thread is not the alleged superiority of DIN but the bad advice of selling/recommending DIN regs for North American and Caribbean Basin traveling divers due to their limited prevalence and niche use. Tech bleed over again on the forum.

N

Yes, the original point of this thread was to chastise people (like me) from promoting the positive aspect of DIN regs. ..Even though, I think I am pretty carful to balance both the pros and cons of this choice.

Just a few posts back, someone claimed that DIN regs were "...not compatible with anything in North America."

How can you not call that out as just factually inaccurate, and steering new divers away form DIN with false information.

I really don't care what most new divers chose to buy.. But I have seen at least one newer diver here that seemed to be steering away from certain brands (ie: HOG), because of a perception that it was a DIN only option.

 

[Storker]

On the DIN convertibles, corrosion.

Never seen that

stripping of the insert hex.

Never seen that

leakage around the insert.

Never seen that

Leaking around the collar of the regulator.

Never seen that

corrosion of the threads of rental tanks scouring the regulator threads .

Never seen that

and leakage.

Never seen that

Not to mention that there are two standards.

In theory, but not in practice

Oh and my new fav, DIN convertible valves being to large to slip a yoke reg over.

Not a problem if you have a DIN reg, I.e irrelevant

 

[Nemrod]

I did not say that--not compatible with anything--that was another poster, I have both and as well have used both in rental. But, nonetheless, yoke is the valve installed on the majority of rental tanks in North America. It is what it is.

As to Stoker, you have not, I have. Different experiences, the fact and it is a fact, in North America the premise of the OPs original post was that regardless of the superiority, factual or legend, of DIN connections in everyday use, they are NOT in common use in the majority of rental tanks in North America. And IMO the DIN convertible types are more of a problem than a solution.

You obviously have not tried to remove a DIN insert that has never been removed.

And when renting, despite asking for one or the other in advance, I often show up to pick my tanks or find them on the boat to discover a mixture of valve types which ten begins with trying to remove inserts that had never been removed (because virtually nobody has a DIN reg to have ever removed them) or trying to get the DIN converter on to the regulator or vice versa. I am okay with either, just not both at once. And since they have already mixed the gas, and in a hurry, start swapping tanks around, not practical.

Y'all carry on, but to the OP, I agree, it is tech bleed over, good intentioned but not sound advice given the circumstances in NA and tank rental fleets.

N

 

[dfx]

I did not say that--not compatible with anything--that was another poster, I have both and as well have used both in rental. But, nonetheless, yoke is the valve installed on the majority of rental tanks in North America. It is what it is.

As to Stoker, you have not, I have. Different experiences, the fact and it is a fact, in North America the premise of the OPs original post was that regardless of the superiority, factual or legend, of DIN connections in everyday use, they are NOT in common use in the majority of rental tanks in North America. And IMO the DIN convertible types are more of a problem than a solution.

You obviously have not tried to remove a DIN insert that has never been removed.

This is a bit of a catch 22, isn't it?

DIN is better, but it poses some short-term difficulties because it's not in widespread use. Therefore we should not promote DIN, thus keeping it from gaining widespread use. And so nothing changes.

Kinda like you guys and your centuries old quarrel with SI (aka the metric system).

 

[Lorenzoid]

This is a bit of a catch 22, isn't it?

DIN is better, but it poses some short-term difficulties because it's not in widespread use. Therefore we should not promote DIN, thus keeping it from gaining widespread use. And so nothing changes.

That's a great way to state it. Yes, it's a Catch-22.

I would prefer to see DIN in widespread use in the US, Caribbean and other places in the world frequented by Americans. However, I think it does a disservice to recommend DIN to OW divers with no foreseeable tech ambitions who just want to go out on a boat in the FL Keys or on vacation to the Caribbean with an absolute minimum of hassle. The DIN-related hassles have been mentioned in this thread, and they are admittedly minor and/or not especially likely to occur. But why potentially add even a tiny amount of stress to what is supposed to be a relatively carefree vacation? The divers asking about DIN versus yoke here on SB are few in number compared with the great many who don't care about DIN and/or don't participate on SB. Advocating DIN to those few who ask about it here on SB will not result in widespread availability of DIN rental tanks in the next few years, if ever. Yes, it's a Catch-22, and I don't know what vacation diver would willingly sacrifice the benefits of yoke today with the hope of making a positive impact on the industry years from now. The dive industry has enough trouble retaining divers as it is without asking them to help save the world from yoke.

 

[redacted]

Never seen that


Never seen that


Never seen that


Never seen that


Never seen that


Never seen that


In theory, but not in practice


Not a problem if you have a DIN reg, I.e irrelevant

When is the last time you used a yoke 1st stage on a din valve?

 

[kelemvor]

This is a bit of a catch 22, isn't it?

DIN is better, but it poses some short-term difficulties because it's not in widespread use. Therefore we should not promote DIN, thus keeping it from gaining widespread use. And so nothing changes.

Kinda like you guys and your centuries old quarrel with SI (aka the metric system).

The metric analogy is appropriate. Telling new divers in teh US to buy din is like telling a new mechanic in the US to buy metric tools. Metric is superior. Eventually it will take over, makes sense right? When he gets to work on Monday? There may be some cars on which he can use them. For the bulk of his work? He's going to have to figure something else out.

But he'll be ready for 2075 when metric is finally in widespread use in the USA.

 

[drrich2]

If yoke works consistently and well for the mainstream recreational U.S. diver, then there is no problem for DIN, however good, to solve.

At least with metric, for some applications such as scientific chemical formula or unit conversions, the 'based on tens' relation of units can make the work smoother.

If 10 yoke divers and 10 DIN divers get on a rec. boat, don't they all gear up and jump in at the same time?

Doesn't using a yoke converter on a DIN reg reintroduce all the disadvantages of yoke, so you gain nothing from DIN when using the converter?

That's a hard sell to people who don't perceive themselves having a problem to begin with.

Richard.