Help choosing a new non-DSLR camera to replace G12

[Tigerman]

Personally I just DID retire my old P&S wich was an even older brother og the G15 - the G7 (with CHDK for the RAW files) - for a canon 7D. Yes, they ARE large and heavy, the housing IS large and heavy - but I enjoy taking pictures under water to such an extent that I can live with that.
I seriously dont think I would be happy for very long spending a moderate ammount of $$$ for the G15 or RX100 instead of biting the bullet and spending the $$$$ for the 7D. Itll mean one less divetrip this year, but damn Im gonna take a LOT of pictures with that camera before its at the end of its life..

 

[NozBzh]

Sure, it's a micro four-thirds. The question then becomes, what advantages does it have over a proper DSLR? Is the housing significantly cheaper or smaller? Are there similar accessories such as viewfinders available for the EM-5 housing? If you're just comparing the cameras themselves, then sure I can see some distinct advantages to the micro-4/3 body but once it goes underwater a lot of those disappear. You have to compare the entire package, not just the body.

The housing is indeed significantly cheaper (1350 USD for the Nauticam vs 3200 USD for the Nauticam D7000). I'm sure it'a also a lot smaller (I havent had it in my hands so it's just speculation). My understanding is that you can use the Nauticam viewfinders on the EM-5 Nauticam housing (with a replacement of the LCD window).

I am comparing the entire package, and from what I read it would seem a good alternative. Much cheaper (but also much more expensive that compacts) and I think less bulky underwater. Of course when you add the tray, arms and strobes it's still going to be bulky, I know that.

Hard to make a choice haha!

 

[CliffWarner]

I have been shooting with a Olympus OM-D EM-5 since it came out (not underwater), and can tell you that there is a significant difference between what I get out of that camera and my wife's G11. We do not have a G121, so can't make that comparison directly, but the G11 is not even close to what I get with my EM-5 and the Panasonic 12-35. It actually was good enough to get me to sell of all of my "proper" DSLR equipment, a Canon 1DsII and lenses. My back has been thanking me ever since. With the new Panasonic 12-35 and 35-100 f 2.8 lenses this is a very capable system. I do believe that the question of overall cost and overall size should be looked at carefully, as the EM-5 is not going to be a low cost option. I do not dive a ton, so I went with an XZ-2 instead for my underwater system. The cost of housing the EM-5 was higher than getting an XZ-2 and housing. The fact that the XZ-2 has the same menu's as my EM-5 made the decision even easier. I should add that I have not had focus issues with my XZ-2. Macro can be touchy, but even a full frame DSLR with macro lens has that issue.

 

[Cumbo]

I'm also thinking of upgrading my setup (G12 in Canon housing and a single Inon S2000 with Inon UCL 165 M67 lens). I love the G12 and the manual control wheels (even if in my housing I need to use the shortcut button to adjust aperture and shutter speed), its great macro capability and its smallish size.
I just think I need something better for wide angle (I work in Komodo now, so plenty of mantas to photograph). My choices are:

1) Get a G12 Recsea/Patima/FIX housing and a wide angle lens. Problem with this: costs a lot for a setup where I don't upgrade my camera (which is very good, but still...). And the good wide angle lenses options on these housings are dry mount, not wet. If I have to choose what type of photo I want to do before my dive, might as well go for mirrorless or dSLR.

2) Get a Sony RX100 with Patima housing (cheaper than others), and wide angle lens. I'll get versatility (macro and wide with wet mount) and better image quality than my G12. But the macro isn't as good as on the G12. The cost would be similar the my first option. Not sure how I'd like to handle such a small camera in manual mode...

3) Seeing the costs of the previous options were pretty high, I thought why not spend a bit more and get a (most likely?) better setup. Olympus OMD EM-5 in Nauticam housing with the 12-50mm Nauticam port and zoom gear. That's a fair bit more money than options 1 and 2, and with this I wouldn't get wide angle (not enough money to buy the lenses for now). But I get decent macro (coupled with my Inon UCL 165) and midrange in with a single lens. With this I can upgrade later to go really wide (8mm fisheye, 7-14mm or 9-18mm) and super macro (60mm, which fits in the 12-50mm port).

It's is quite sad taking wideangle photos with G12 without any wideangle lens. You can capture a manta or a whale shark from a large distance, but then there's going to be so much stuff between you and the subject, that the picture will not be really great. And it's ok for a while, but now I feel I need more.

I also was thinking about OMD EM-5 (partly because of the praising reviews), but now it seems that I had to buy an expensive housing, a couple of lenses and a couple of ports, which is too much.

Do you know, if there's a wideangle/fisheye lens on which you can either add a wet dome or 67 mm macro diopters? I.e. one could do both on the same dive.

I really do understand that Cumbo but clearly it's not easy to find something that's significantly better than the G12 while ruling out DSLR. Sure, there are some rigs that offer a few advantages in different areas but none of them are "better enough" to get you to jump. That's why you're not really finding anything. You're at or near the top of the P&S range. The next step is DSLR.

I know they're big, heavy and expensive. They also take brilliant photos, especially if you use quality strobes. I'm in the same spot as yourself. My G12 is doing the job, but I know I'll eventually retire it for a DSLR. It's just a matter of time.

-Charles


Sure, it's a micro four-thirds. The question then becomes, what advantages does it have over a proper DSLR? Is the housing significantly cheaper or smaller? Are there similar accessories such as viewfinders available for the EM-5 housing? If you're just comparing the cameras themselves, then sure I can see some distinct advantages to the micro-4/3 body but once it goes underwater a lot of those disappear. You have to compare the entire package, not just the body.

My problem is, that I have already - years ago - ruled out DSLRs. My brother is a professional photographer and I have seen him carry that stuff for years and I do not want to do that. I'd like to get a micro 4/3 camera with which I get excellent photos AND wideangle + macro without having to buy an expensive housing AND 2 ports AND 2 lenses. I'm beginning to feel that there's just nothing suitable for me..


By the way: Sony NEX-5n would have cheap housings available. http://www.linkdelight.com/buy/housing+nex-5n.html

 

[fisheater]

Look into an E-PM1, with wet lenses.

 

[gsdivers]

We had a G12 2 years ago and loved it, but we also felt we needed to update after 1 year so we purchased a used Sony Nex 5 and a new Sony Nex 7 for each of us to have. The Sony Nex 7 is by far the best camera we have ever had so we sold the Nex 5 and bought two Nex 7 settups. It's very easy to use and takes incredible photos. We are moving back to the mainland US so have decided to sell one of our rigs. I just posted it on this website if you are interested. The information is below.
My husband shoots strictly macro and I switch from wide angle to to zoom lens. We found the macro lens to be very versitile though, as it will shoot very small critters and shots at infinity just as well. My husband took two back to back photos one day with the macro lens. One was of a cleaner shrimp and immediately following was a photo of me with a school of wahoo in the background. Both awesome photos. We also use doublers with our macro settup. it's so easy to use, especially with the two dials on the housing, one for F-stop and one for shutter speed. For the most part we have been able to set things up so that we only use one dial to make slight adjustments, mostly in the F-stop. The movie setting is also very good, especially if you have a video light

Selling full underwater camera setup purchased new in Jan 2012:
-Sony NEX 7 camera body with 2 years left in its extended warranty
-Sony E mount 30mm macro lens
-Nauticam housing for NEX 7 camera
-Nauticam macro lens port

-Sandisk 32 GB extreme pro SDHC
-2 camera batteries with one charger
$2950 for all the above + shipping and paypal fees if there are any

We found an aiming light to be necessary for low light and night diving so we also are selling a Sola 800 for $375 and if you need strobes you can let me know and I might still have a set left if they haven't already sold. Also have a dual handle tray for $90

E-mail me at gsdivers@gmail.com if you are interested

 

[vondo]

I'm in the same boat as the OP. I had a G10, recently got a G12. Topside I shoot Canon SLRs. For me, the two best things about the G series are 1) the ability to do Macro and something like wide angle and 2) the C1/C2 settings on Canon cameras.

It sounds like there is no acceptable solution to 1) with an SLR or mirrorless system. The easy solution to 2) is to house one of my SLRs.

 

[charlesml3]

I hear you Cumbo. That's the real limitation with the G12. There really is no good wide-angle solution for that camera. And I looked. And looked. With the way the G12 zooms it pretty much eliminates the ability to do true wide-angle. There's a dome for the Ikelite housing but it only gets you to something like 38mm I think.

The EM5 is better than what you have with the G12. I just question if it's really a LOT better. And any way you look at it, it's not as good as a DSLR. Yes, I've heard everyone say it's "just as good as a DSLR" but they all know it does not have the same flexibility as a proper Canon or Nikon in a good housing.

The beauty of the DSLR housings is how long they've been around. You have lots of ports, lenses and viewfinders to choose from. That flexibility will go a long way towards getting the photos you want. The Micro 4/3 may end up being a good intermediate solution when there are more of them out there and the housing manufacturers catch up.

I'm eventually going to go DSLR. I love my G12 right now because I shoot macro most of the time anyway but I'll eventually want to do more.

-Charles

 

[Interceptor121]

Olympus OMD EM-5 sounds interesting but it will require a hard wired TTL strobe, not an issue but just more $$$
I still believe the Sony RX100 would be a good choice

 

[charlesml3]

but it will require a hard wired TTL strobe, not an issue but just more $$$

So? It's a tiny percentage compared to the body, lens, housing and strobe. I think the TTL cable for my G12 is less than $100. BFD.

-Charles